TheBigShort
Registered User
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- 2,789
From the man who started a thread about pay rises with a far more nebulous premise.
If we accept that the tax system is unfairly burdensome on those who are medium to high earners then the details of how to solve the problem can follow.
This isn't the first time I've made this suggestion, though I fully understand why you're ignoring it.Any proposals yet in how to redress the suffering of the top 20% of income earners?
Using real figures mind!
Based on what?I agree that the tax system is unfair to medium workers at least.
Based on what?
Details please.
I'm not God.God, what a cop out!
Good idea.This isn't the first time I've made this suggestion, though I fully understand why you're ignoring it.
But anyway:
Copy Sweden's income tax model take their rates and bands, that way there's no decrease in taxation on the higher paid that you find so troubling. Or take your pick of any other non-resource rich country with a non-embarassing health system, a fairly funded state pension, better unemployment assistance, good child care options.
You'll find that to fund those services they'll have to have in place an income tax system that's not as stupid as ours. Accepting the Irish income tax system means you're settling for Irish level services.
This isn't the first time I've made this suggestion, though I fully understand why you're ignoring it.
But anyway:
Copy Sweden's income tax model take their rates and bands, that way there's no decrease in taxation on the higher paid that you find so troubling. Or take your pick of any other non-resource rich country with a non-embarassing health system, a fairly funded state pension, better unemployment assistance, good child care options.
You'll find that to fund those services they'll have to have in place an income tax system that's not as stupid as ours. Accepting the Irish income tax system means you're settling for Irish level services.
But this topic is not about raising more taxes to pay for the things that you have presented. It is, at its worst, about cutting welfare rates in order to provide tax cuts for higher earners and at best, it is about transferring the taxation burden from higher earners onto lower earners in return for zero services.
Is this a bad thing? Really? Is the author advocating high tax take on low income earners? Perhaps not, perhaps a higher tax take than what is currently applied. But astonishingly, this extra tax take is not to used to provide for improved public services but rather to provide for a tax cut for higher income earners!
I am not inherently opposed to minimum wage workers paying extra tax. I am opposed that such a tax may be used to offer tax cuts for higher earners. This would be complete nonsense.
I must admit I didn't read all the posts, so I support a Nordic mix of taxes and services, you do, and I think Purple does.Not exactly sure why you think I was ignoring it, or how you came to 'understand' that I was I was ignoring it?
I think its a great idea. And if it means lower income earners have to contribute more then so be it.
Perhaps you have ignored my previous comments here?
As you may, or may not, deduce from the above, my position is this;
I am opposed to cutting welfare and raising taxes on lower income earners for the purposes of providing tax cuts to higher earners.
I am not inherently opposed to raising taxes on lower income earners if it is to provide for improved public services.
Here is where I said this earlier
I would like to see the PRSI contribution ceiling restored (was 52K pre-2009, then 75K until 2011 then removed). For 'pay-related' social insurance, capped benefits should mean capped contributions as is the case in many european countries.
I have no idea. Why does it matter?
Maybe a simpler solution to reducing the tax paid by our high earners could be just reducing the payroll of our goverment and civil service ??
Not a solution but rather than precipitating industrial mayhem by cutting either pay or numbers merely do nothing & leave our current tax system in place ?
There have already been 2-4 pay cuts for all public servants.
You seem to be suggesting further pay cuts? Even though wages are rising outside the PS.
If not in pay rates, then in numbers?
"The PRSI system here should be changed so that a person's contributions should go into an account in their own name. This account would be used to pay their pension and their healthcare. They could also draw on the account during any periods of unemployment. The more they put into the account, the more they would get out. If someone earning €80,000 a year loses their job, they would get a dole payment based on their salary, but it would be drawn from their own account. They would not be getting some State handout, they would be getting their own money back. And it would always be in their interest to work. While they are working, they are building up their retirement account. While they are unemployed, they are depleting it.
When they retire, they would get a pension based on the amount in the account.
Such a system would go a long way to solving the pensions crisis we have. If people paid for their pension through a PRSI account in their own name, they would not need a separate, privately funded pension. They would be prepared to pay higher PRSI if they could see a direct link between what they pay in and what they eventually draw out. There would be no more arguments about the age at which a person should be able to draw the Old Age Pension. The amount of the pension they would get and the age from which it could be drawn would be decided by the amount they have in their PRSI account."
I think it would be a move in the right direction. But the current system is so completely dysfunctional, that it will take years to fix.
I think a personal account system would be a good first step in the right direction.
Brendan
You miss the point that there was substantial pro-high earner and pro-enterprise tax reform and reductions in the 1990s, which was one of the factors that created a booming economy from circa 1994 onwards. In the meantime we reversed this progress with predictable results.Because if the top 20% were still paying 75% of the income tax back then and the bottom 50% only contributed 4% we would still be having the same discussion.
What I am suggesting is rather than start at the bottom with cutting social welfare payments, why not start at the top.
Why is our Taoiseach paid more than the British Prime Minister ??
They had a golden opportunity to do that during the crash....reform the whole PS/CS, pay structures, jobs for life etc. They didn't do it then- it will never be doneMaybe a simpler solution to reducing the tax paid by our high earners could be just reducing the payroll of our goverment and civil service ??
You miss the point that there was substantial pro-high earner and pro-enterprise tax reform and reductions in the 1990s, which was one of the factors that created a booming economy from circa 1994 onwards. In the meantime we reversed this progress with predictable results.
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