Current cleric report spiked?

  • Thread starter Chocks away
  • Start date

Al Capone was imprisoned for tax evasion, not for everything else he did. If they cannot be imprisioned for not reporting a rape, is there other legislation they could be prosecuted under? Health and safety, corporate governance? Any legal minds out there with any thoughts on that?
 
No organization should have the kind of power Catholic Church had in Ireland. These were people who believed that if they represent a being that's almighty, it makes them almighty themselves. And they still believe it, I don't believe any tears of humility they shed right now anymore than I'd believe a crocodile is really weeping. And if they really do, it's not because of the victims but because they feel sorry for themselves.
I talked to several young priests and I was genuinely surprised about their level of arrogance - they seriously consider themselves and the Church above any secular law and if you dare criticize anything about it, they'd call you atheist and nihilist. It is like they live in an ivory tower of ignorance and isolation from the outside world.
How far have we come if an organisation which is supposed to represent our believes is more or less an isolated organisation, approachable through diplomatic channels only. These people are supposed to serve God, not another state. When it suits them, it's about "we are here for the people", when it doesn't, it's about "your government should talk to our diplomats". Strange.
 
+1
 
One of the most disturbing things about this whole thing for me is that I find myself agreeing with [broken link removed]!
 
Mpsox said:
By facilitiating getting all of this out in the open, by not being obstructive and obtusive like his predecesors and being the first bishop in Dublin in a century to both do the right thing and to seem genuinely remorseful for it.
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I think you should really think about what you are praising him for.

Personally I see nothing praiseworthy. Quite the opposite.
 
Purple said:
One of the most disturbing things about this whole thing for me is that I find myself agreeing with [broken link removed]!
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The article is refreshing in it's originality. I imagine the next stage is a lovebombing of the Irish faithful by Rome. This, however, should be rebuffed. Again our politicians have been found wanting. Me Feiners one and all. Now that they've seen how the land lies a few are making noises. They have no cojones. At least the eunuchs of old performed a service.
 
Bronte said:
But they DID allow these things to happen, and they covered it up. They perpetuated it. It makes them as evil as those that did it.
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When you say 'they' you can only mean the ones who are actually guilty or are you saying that every priest is guilty by association, it's not clear from your post ( to me at least).
 
MrMan said:
When you say 'they' you can only mean the ones who are actually guilty or are you saying that every priest is guilty by association, it's not clear from your post ( to me at least).
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Those that raped and abused children are clearly guilty but so too are the very many who knew about it. Once a child raping priest was caught nothing was done to him. Those working with these rapists, the priest in charge of that priest or brother, the superior, the superiors bishop, the bishops staff, the file sent to the Papal Nuncio and the Pope all colluded in the cover up. Nothing was done to help the raped children, no regard was given to the pain and turmoil of these children and the lives ruined by the events that happened to them. If this is not a complete systematic evil than I don't know what is evil.

Remember that these men ran and run whole parts of Irish society. Not one of them seems to this day to have the moral courage to come out with the truth, to tell us they did wrong, that they perpetuated the evil that is child rape, that they moved the priests around knowing what they would do. That they treated the raped children abonomiable, that they didn't and don't care about children. They only care about the Church and the protection of that Church, that is more important than an innocent child. Surely that is more evil than anything any right thinking human could think of.
 
Having watched the media reports over the last two weeks since the release of the Murphy Report I have changed my position somewhat. I initially called for the Bishop of Limerick to resign and then for all the Bishops named in the Murphy Report to resign.
I have now come to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter one iota if they resign or don’t resign. They will just be replaced by other people with like minded agendas who answer to Rome rather than the laws of Ireland.

These Bishops should now be put before the courts of Ireland and be held accountable for there crimes. Essentially by moving priests for one parish to another, thus enabling the criminals to find more victims, they are as guilty (to my mind) of not reporting crimes and causing the suffering and distress of new victims when it could have been avoided.

I watched the Six-One news last night and after a brief interview with Willie Walsh they showed a priest crying into the camera saying “he was a good man and we all love him”. To be honest it looked pathetic and was embarrassing to watch. But it showed me the mind set of the Catholic Church. If we love each other and put our faith in God then everything will be alright. That is not good enough for 21st Century Ireland.

To my mind, nothing short of criminal prosecutions for the enablers of child rape will suffice.
 

Yep;

 
Bronte said:
Because you are praising him for doing something that he should be doing anyway.
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I'm praising him for doing something which no one else was prepared to do. Agree that all of the bishops and catholic heircarchy should be doing things anyway.
 
I don't think anyone disagrees about what should be done to those you describe in your post, I just don't agree that the organisation as a whole is evil or that every priest would react in the same way.
 
Mpsox said:
I'm praising him for doing something which no one else was prepared to do. .
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No that is not correct, he was given this job to do, it's called damage limitation. He was very very carefully selected. He may not even know this himself.
 
Bronte said:
No that is not correct, he was given this job to do, it's called damage limitation. He was very very carefully selected. He may not even know this himself.
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Thats unfair. I am sure the guy is not looking for credit but even the abuse victims charities all admit that he has done alot of good under very difficult circumstances. He has been more outspoken against the failures of the Church than plenty of other people within that organisation including his bosses in Rome.
 
There is nothing that the Church does that is not carefully planned. You are very naive if you think otherwise. They are a study in Machiavellian thinking.
 
Bronte said:
There is nothing that the Church does that is not carefully planned. You are very naive if you think otherwise. They are a study in Machiavellian thinking.
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I judge things as I see them not as on the basis of paranoia or conspiracy theories. I go by what I read from the people that matter i.e. victims themselves and if someone like Christine Buckley says Diarmuid Martin was a driving force of reform and Marie Collins says he was doing an excellent job then I am prepared to take him and his efforts at face value. I don't hold him accountable for what the rest of his organisation does or doesn't say.
 
There is a general feeling in certain circles that Diarmid Martin's job in Ireland is done and he is now in line for a new job in Rome. His nickname, in church circles, is Martin De Tours because of his fondness for travel. He was appointed to oversee these investigations and then move on to better things. Wait and See
 
I dont think the chruch is a savvy as poeple are making out. I've some dealings with the church (other than as a fairly regular massgoer) and its a bit of a parallel universe. I detect a fair bit of resentment at the "meejah" with their liberal agenda, and maybe a sense that the media are luvvin it to be able to kick the church.

For instance, if Bishop Murray/the organisation really had his/its finger on the pulse he would have resigned on the publication of the report. They might resent feeling obliged to make him a "sacrificial lamb" to public revulsion, but they'd know he was on the skids anyway and dragging it out only riles the "mob" further and damages the church further (if thats possible since its pretty much on the floor at the minute).

The smart move would have been an "Oprah" style interview, tender your resignation, accept that you failed in some ways - and fire in all the excuses, clarifications, blame spreading you want so that you dont have to blacken yourself altogether. Its easier to accept an excuse etc. from someone who's taken their medicine, that someone who's grappling to remain in their position when its untenable.

Some of the stuff in the last week or two had me thinking "Dont tell me they STILL havent learned from past mistakes."
 
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