Crackdown on Prov License Drivers - Will it stick?

[RainyDay]

My understanding is that it is at the discretion of the local welfare officer... I am open to correction but this is my information. Could people afford a car/petrol/tax/insurance on their social welfare benefits?

Can I suggest that you get more than 'an understanding' before you post a clear, definitive claim like this? It is worrying that your main basis for your claim of the existing of this scheme seems to be that they couldn't afford a car otherwise. Unless you have full details of their personal financial circumstances, you really shouldn't come to such conclusions.

If such a scheme did exist, it would be documented on http://www.citizensinformation.ie/ and other location. Community Welfare Officers are not going to hand over cash unless such schemes exist and are document.

 

[ubiquitous]

My understanding is that it is at the discretion of the local welfare officer... .

I have a close relative who works as a community welfare officer in the Dublin region and can confirm for your information that there is not a shred of truth in what you say in relation to "car grants". Your claim that "One of my best friends works for citizens advice and she struggled to buy her own car so was very frustrated by this!" is therefore obviously a bare-faced lie. Shame on you.

I'll leave it to the mods to decide whether in that context the remainder of your posts above constitute race-baiting.

 

[MrMan]

Why is it always the minority that takes precendence over the majority? Why should the lives of the 1.6 million licenced motorists by put at risk by the 400,000 unlicenced drivers on our roads?

maybe he was actually protecting the lives of the 400,000 from the 1,600,000 licensed drivers who were over-confident on the road.

I'll leave it to the mods to decide whether in that context the remainder of your posts above constitute race-baiting.

People get carried away with stories and it was possibly her friend that passed on the ill-informed info? I wouldn't say it was race baiting though.

 

[kmelvin]

3rd Provisional License

Hi,

Everywhere I read relating to the change in the law (in particular with deferring the change until next year) - talks specifically about 2nd provisional license.

What about drivers on there 3rd provisional? Are they exempt from the new ruling or does it apply to all provisional drivers?

Thanks

K

 

[Trent]

Drivers on a third provisional were never allowed to drive unaccompanied in the first place, so the proposed change in legislation wouldn't have made any difference to them.

Does that answer what you were looking to know?

 

[Caveat]

Re: 3rd Provisional License

Hi,

Everywhere I read relating to the change in the law (in particular with deferring the change until next year) - talks specifically about 2nd provisional license.

What about drivers on there 3rd provisional? Are they exempt from the new ruling or does it apply to all provisional drivers?

Thanks

K

All provisional drivers as far as I know.

 

[Sunny]

Re: 3rd Provisional License

Hi,

Everywhere I read relating to the change in the law (in particular with deferring the change until next year) - talks specifically about 2nd provisional license.

What about drivers on there 3rd provisional? Are they exempt from the new ruling or does it apply to all provisional drivers?

Thanks

K

Drivers on their 3rd provisional were never legally allowed to drive by themselves but people on their 2nd were. These are the ones that have been given until next June though in effect all provisional drivers probably have until next June to get a full license before they start enforcing the new requirements. You are still breaking the law though if you drive on your own on a third provisional.

 

[Mel]

Gay Byrne should resign immediately. He said before that if he did not see things being done then he would go. Ah hold on wait a minute -the salary is nice -think I'll stay. This is a joke!

He was on the Last Word on Friday, and was asked (again) if he would sit the test on a point of principal, seeing as he simply bought his licence back in the day when that was how it was done.
His reply was that he doesn't feel he needs to... what a glowing example.

 

[Thrifty1]

I am a provisional licened driver. im 18 and iv been driving for the last 11 months.

Have you sat a test yet? This is what i dont understand, i got my licence, took driving lessons, applied for my test, sat test and passed all within an 8 month period.
As far as i can see people holding a provisional licence dont bother applying for their test until they absolutely have to. I have a family member who is in the process of applying for her second PL, she hasnt ever applied to sit the test. She was hoping to get her second PL and now be allowed drive unaccompanied.

People blame waiting times, but these are the same people who are driving for years.

A lady was on the radio over the weekend complaining of the hardship she will suffer. She has been driving 10 years and sat the test 4 times. 4 TIMES IN 10 YEARS, thats hardly proactive, she cant blame waiting times, even with a 6 month waiting period she could have sat her test 20 times now.

She has proven herself INCOMPETENT to drive a car yet still continues to do so putting others and her self and kids at risk.
She said her son asked her will she breaking the law and she said "son i have to" - WHAT?????? she has been breaking it for the last 10 years but clearly didnt see it that way.

 

[Mel]

Over the weekend I was pondering on why exactly I haven't gotten around to doing my test. I personally have no worries about my driving, nor do my various licenced passengers, including my dad, who has been a HGV driver for 30 years or more. I had actually intended to do the test in the next few months regardless as I'd like to do a drive around France on hols next summer.

The only conclusion I can come to is the ridiculously high failure rates being a complete and utter disincentive (the average pass rate is only 52%!?), as well as the urban myths that surround it - "the testers have to fail a percentage of people" being the main one that I know of.

Has Noel Dempsey or anyone else ever directly addressed this issue? It would be great to have someone make a statement on it one way or the other.
But if 400,000 people need to sit the test by next June, then make that 600,000 for the 50% of resits. (My maths not being the best, this is probably more - for the 50% of the resits that fail .. etc)

 

[Thrifty1]

Over the weekend I was pondering on why exactly I haven't gotten around to doing my test. I personally have no worries about my driving, nor do my various licenced passengers, including my dad, who has been a HGV driver for 30 years or more. I had actually intended to do the test in the next few months regardless as I'd like to do a drive around France on hols next summer.

The only conclusion I can come to is the ridiculously high failure rates being a complete and utter disincentive (the average pass rate is only 52%!?), as well as the urban myths that surround it - "the testers have to fail a percentage of people" being the main one that I know of.

Has Noel Dempsey or anyone else ever directly addressed this issue? It would be great to have someone make a statement on it one way or the other.
But if 400,000 people need to sit the test by next June, then make that 600,000 for the 50% of resits. (My maths not being the best, this is probably more - for the 50% of the resits that fail .. etc)

That is honestly the most pathetic excuse i have heard. You have not applied for YOUR test because the failure rates are so high.
If you are confident in yuor driving ability and have "no worries about your driving" then why not sit the test. Believe me the tester will not fail you if you are competent.
I suspect the reason failure rates are so high is because most people THINK they are great drivers, drive around for years getting bad habits ingrained in them and not bothering with lessons.

Testers do not have to fail a percentage of people, like you said it is an urban myth repeated by those that cant pass.

 

[Sunny]

I have been quiet supportive of provisional drivers on this thread but I have to admit that reading your reason for not doing the test does make me question if I was right to be. Using low pass rates as a reason not to do the test is pathetic sorry to say!

 

[elefantfresh]

I don't see the problem to be honest - if you fail your test you have just been told that you're not fit to drive and need to learn. Yet you can drive home?
A lady in the paper yesterday was complaining despite the fact that she had failed her test 4 times. That to me says she is not a competant enough driver and should therefore not be allowed to drive without further tuition. How can someone be driving for 10 years without having passed a test?? Why are insurance companies backing this? Surely to goodness an unqualifed driver on his own is not covered?
The mind boggles.

 

[michaelm]

Ultimately it will stick as it is entirely reasonable and sensible for a would-be driver to have to meet a minimum standard. As ever, it was poorly handled - another FF FUBAR.

 

[Mel]

It's not an excuse, it's just the only reason I can think of, because it wasn't a conscious decision to avoid doing a test, I just never did: up to now I've just been carrying on per government / garda enforced regulations. Luckily I don't have to answer to either of you . Or anyone else till next June.
I'll do the test before then if I get a slot.

 

[kmelvin]

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[euroDilbert]

Over the weekend I was pondering on why exactly I haven't gotten around to doing my test. I personally have no worries about my driving,

Presumably neither does the lady who failed her test 4 times.

In many surveys I've seen, most people say that they rate their driving ability as "above average" - a statistical impossibility.

This is why we have a driving test - it's not perfect, but is some form of objective measure of basic driving ability.

In fact Mel, you may indeed be an excellent and careful driver - still no reason not to do the test though.

 

[Mel]

Absolutely not, I have never had a speeding ticket, points, crash, not so much as a parking ticket, but no reason not to have done it before now; but there was never a great need to, it was the accepted way of doing things. In the same way that drink-driving was perfectly acceptable in this country at one time. And smoking in the workplace / presence of children. And other things that are now illegal / totally unacceptable.
My application is in however and I can't wait to see what date I might get.
The biggest problem here has been the attempt to change a national culture in the space of 72 hours. If Dempsey hadn't admitted that his neck is 'on the block' (today's Independent), then I'd be inclined to think that it was a deliberate shock-tactic to make everyone wake up.

 

[Thrifty1]

I think it is beside the point that this was the way things were being done. It was always illegal to drive unaccompanied on first, third and subsequent licences, why the uproar when its now going to be enforced.

I can understand the upset of second PL holders, they should certaintly be allowed additional time but i cant see a valid reason why other PL holders should feel such indignation.
You know you have been breaking the law, you are an adult, the government has a right to expect you will abide by the law, they can see people are obviously not and are taking advantage of the situation and they were forced to take action.

You have nobody to blame but yourselves, this action was forced by a continous blatent disregard of the law.

I would imagine it wasnt so strictly enforced previously due to long waiting times for tests, but now they have realised that the majority of people have no intention of sitting the test and were using that as an excuse.

 

[Mel]

I would imagine it wasnt so strictly enforced previously due to long waiting times for tests, but now they have realised that the majority of people have no intention of sitting the test and were using that as an excuse.

And how long will they be now? It will be a mess....