Covid social welfare payment / dis incentive to return to work

[Steven Barrett]

I have been able to continue working through this crisis. I know lots of people who haven't and they have to be able to work so they can pay their bills. The government had to bring out this payment in a hurry and the quickest way is a flat amount. Households with 2 adults and 2 part time working students get €1,400 a week. I have no problem with some people getting paid more. It is a temporary measure. I would prefer this way than the govt spending weeks and months figuring out a better way and people having their electricity off or not being able to get food.

The Opposition Parties are lining up that this payment stay in place for the medium term. The far left want it to become the new dole amount.
It won't be ending in June

This, I wholly disagree with. It is too high a payment, too expensive for the State and a disincentive to work. Too many people will simply just not work.



Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)

 

[galway_blow_in]

The Opposition Parties are lining up that this payment stay in place for the medium term. The far left want it to become the new dole amount.
It won't be ending in June

FG will be forced to flip flop , FF are gone very left under MM and add to that , the media will brand FG are " right wing " for phasing it out

 

[cmalone]

Revenue have monthly payroll returns from employers - so it’s not a big IT exercise by Social Welfare.

10,000 people off ‘live register’ and back to work in past two weeks. Expect many of these employers are simply claiming the other covid payment to subsidise their wage

 

[Delboy]

This, I wholly disagree with. It is too high a payment, too expensive for the State and a disincentive to work. Too many people will simply just not work.

I spoke with 2 people over the weekend who mentioned this disincentive to work.
1, an Accountant in a practice where most of the clients are small business, said some of them have had people quiet at the start of the crisis and simply cannot find any replacements.
The other, the founder of a large online retail business, also cannot get enough new people in to fill roles and so has directed some of the work to other European bases. Those who he has managed to get working for him here are only doing it as long as it's cash in hand and off the books.

 

[Steven Barrett]

Minimum wage in Ireland is €10.10, so for a 35 hour week, you earn €353.50. Out of that you have the cost of getting to work and the likely higher cost of lunches. You are financially better off claiming the €350 payment than working a minimum wage job.

As I stated already, I have no problem with this payment on a temporary basis but if their employer has opened back up in a safe manner and the worker refuses to go back to work, their employer should report them and the payment stopped.

Unless the ECB writes off the additional funds we have borrowed for this, the cost of this shut down will be felt for decades. It will have to be paid for and it is likely that cuts to welfare programmes will be paying for it.

Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)

 

[Allpartied]

Minimum wage in Ireland is €10.10, so for a 35 hour week, you earn €353.50. Out of that you have the cost of getting to work and the likely higher cost of lunches. You are financially better off claiming the €350 payment than working a minimum wage job.

As I stated already, I have no problem with this payment on a temporary basis but if their employer has opened back up in a safe manner and the worker refuses to go back to work, their employer should report them and the payment stopped.

Unless the ECB writes off the additional funds we have borrowed for this, the cost of this shut down will be felt for decades. It will have to be paid for and it is likely that cuts to welfare programmes will be paying for it.

Steven
http://www.bluewaterfp.ie (www.bluewaterfp.ie)

My two daughters, both students, who were working part time in March, are getting the 350 a week.
They were earning about 150 a week before the lock down.
So they are 200 quid a week better off.
But don't worry, the money will be back in the govt coffers come September when they have to pay the 3000 euro student registration fee.
Anything left will be handed over to the deserving landlords of Drumcondra and Phibsborough.

 

[Baby boomer]

Anything left will be handed over to the deserving landlords of Drumcondra and Phibsborough.

...who will hand over 50% to the government which will keep the cycle running over!


Seriously though, I have a clatter of nephews and nieces who are students and they are absolutely delighted with their Covid money

 

[Allpartied]

...who will hand over 50% to the government which will keep the cycle running over!


Seriously though, I have a clatter of nephews and nieces who are students and they are absolutely delighted with their Covid money

This should be the start of a Universal Basic Income. This level would be about right, maybe higher.

We are in a new normal since 2008 and economists just haven't caught up.

Another massive stimulus programme, concentrated on the stock market, asset prices and the financial services industry is doomed to failure.

A people's bailout, unprecedented capital stimulus straight into main street, via wage subsidies will be needed. This should be coupled with Peoples' QE, or pubic works to build and modernise essential infrastructure, by printing money. Otherwise we are looking at a deflationary depression.

 

[elcato]

This should be the start of a Universal Basic Income. This level would be about right, maybe higher.

We are in a new normal since 2008 and economists just haven't caught up.

Another massive stimulus programme, concentrated on the stock market, asset prices and the financial services industry is doomed to failure.

A people's bailout, unprecedented capital stimulus straight into main street, via wage subsidies will be needed. This should be coupled with Peoples' QE, or pubic works to build and modernise essential infrastructure, by printing money. Otherwise we are looking at a deflationary depression.

You must be expecting another election then and hoping to get in next time ?

 

[mtk]

Paying more than was previously earned is so silly. What were they thinking ? And it's still not "fixed"

 

[fistophobia]

I have decided, if theres any income tax hikes or wealth tax, in next budget, I am quitting work.
I am not paying for all of this excess.

 

[ATC110]

My two daughters, both students, who were working part time in March, are getting the 350 a week.
They were earning about 150 a week before the lock down.
So they are 200 quid a week better off.
But don't worry, the money will be back in the govt coffers come September when they have to pay the 3000 euro student registration fee.
Anything left will be handed over to the deserving landlords of Drumcondra and Phibsborough.

Eh it doesn't work like that - strange type of logic there.

Hopefully the €200 per week surplus will have to be repaid.

 

[Allpartied]

You must be expecting another election then and hoping to get in next time ?

.

Eh it doesn't work like that - strange type of logic there.

Hopefully the €200 per week surplus will have to be repaid.

Well, it will be taxable. So it will be recouped via the tax system as they earn money.

Actually, in a pandemic this is exactly how it is intended to work.

The purpose of the payment isn't just to stop people from falling in to penury, but also to ensure that sick people, or symptomatic people, or places of infection are managed and not encouraged to spread a deadly virus like wildfire.

 

[Allpartied]

Paying more than was previously earned is so silly. What were they thinking ? And it's still not "fixed"

Interesting to see so many people get really exercised because some other people on very low wages are, for once, getting a little bit extra.

These people are already being heavily subsidised by rent allowances and other additional welfare payments. Most of which are needed because rich private landlords are charging 3k a month for a dump in the North Inner city.
The way to overcome this transfer of taxpayers money to rich people, is to build proper council housing and to encourage workers to form closed shop unions to ensure their wages are improved.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

I went and looked at some old payslips. In summer 2002 I earned €290 a week for an entry-level office job. This was gross, I think the only deduction was ultimately PRSI.

Adjusted for inflation that's €360 a week gross today.

At the time I thought this was good money and saved as much as I could. I see the government is now paying young people basically the same to sit at home

 

[ATC110]

.Well, it will be taxable. So it will be recouped via the tax system as they earn money.

It doesn't work like that either. By your logic the state hypothetically gets drip-fed a gross overpayment of taxpayers money at some undetermined date in the future over a similarly undetermined timeframe.

I hope the state will require immediate repayment of the surplus in full in the near future.

 

[elcato]

Interesting to see so many people get really exercised because some other people on very low wages are, for once, getting a little bit extra.

I agreed with you here till you put this afterwards which showed your true colours.

These people are already being heavily subsidised by rent allowances and other additional welfare payments. Most of which are needed because rich private landlords are charging 3k a month for a dump in the North Inner city.

 

[Allpartied]

It doesn't work like that either. By your logic the state hypothetically gets drip-fed a gross overpayment of taxpayers money at some undetermined date in the future over a similarly undetermined timeframe.

I hope the state will require immediate repayment of the surplus in full in the near future.

It certainly doesn't work like that.

The state set up a wage support scheme, it set out the requirements and the eligibilities.

If citizens met the eligibility assessment, they received the payment.

There is no recourse for repayment of any surplus, whatever that means, other than through the taxation system.

You could propose a special tax on low paid workers to recuperate the money, but I doubt it would get much political support.

 

[Allpartied]

I went and looked at some old payslips. In summer 2002 I earned €290 a week for an entry-level office job. This was gross, I think the only deduction was ultimately PRSI.

Adjusted for inflation that's €360 a week gross today.

At the time I thought this was good money and saved as much as I could. I see the government is now paying young people basically the same to sit at home

I was in Dublin at the same time.
Our rent was 300 quid a month.

That was for a 1 bedroom apartment, with sitting room, bathroom, kitchen. The ground floor of a house in D7.
So, even if we were on your 360 a week, entry level salary, it would be very affordable.
Try getting an apartment in Dublin on 350 a week today.
Your 350 is not getting the same lifestyle as their 350.

 

[Leo]

That was for a 1 bedroom apartment, with sitting room, bathroom, kitchen. The ground floor of a house in D7.
<snip>
Try getting an apartment in Dublin on 350 a week today.

People complained such bedsits were substandard and they needed more space, it was obvious to everyone but those leading that charge that the only result was higher rents. On top of that add the policy of outsourcing social housing to the private sector...