Court rules against JLC's


Yup, let's judge the worthiness of the scheme once it has failed. Though I'm not confident the scheme managers have established a specific measurable criteria to judge its success.

If someone isn't receiving a specific wage, does that mean they can't pay union subs and become members?
 
Now ask those here whether after 12 months of constant rejection and failure to secure work, a few months on social welfare and working "for free" was worth the entry into slavery.

Speaking for myself only then yes I would agree with this. I have only been out of work for 4 months and would gladly work for "free" ( have done it before)

I don't think anyone who has never been unemployed understands how truly soul-destroying it is dealing with the rejections and feeling that you are worthless and not wanted, that most would jump at the chance to prove themselves and save ones own sanity.
 
My concern with these intern schemes is that they will make it MORE difficult for people to get work in the future, because employers will exploit the schemes to get free labour. So the short term gain of a few months work for dole+€50 is more than negated by the long term loss of a decent job. When you see large retailers etc using these schemes, they don't look to me to be genuine internships.
 

Subsequent European Court judgements have rendered this lone voice argument irrelevant.

Minister Bruton accepts that legislation needs to be enacted that guarantees mandatory Trade Union recognition to comply with the aforementioned judgements

Whether it is done voluntarily or forced upon the Government is really the only question now .
 

The cost of training new employeess can be huge. I don't knoe any employers who think a high staff turnover is a good thing.
 
Nice to see hard-pressed hedge funds availing of this scheme to get some free slave labour;

[broken link removed]
 
Nice to see hard-pressed hedge funds availing of this scheme to get some free slave labour;

[broken link removed]

It's a fund administration company, not a hedge fund. Secondly, the funds industry is one part of the economy where there are job opportunities for people with experience. There are actually staff shortages in the area. So if a funds company is willing to give someone a 6 months introduction to the industry and allow them to gain some experience, why are you knocking them? Unless you are saying that you have knowledge that this particular company is exploiting the scheme. Actually considering the link you provided names the company and you have accused them of using slave labour, you are already on very dodgy ground.

I should point out that I am not a big fan of these schemes but my pension was raided by the Government to pay for it so it had better make a difference.
 
Because they are not paying the employee? Are you seriously suggesting that these fund companies genuinly shouldn't pay an entry level or trainee wage for the initial period? Why should the State be subsidising their industry? Isn't it funny how when it comes to public servants, people are very quick with the 'we just can't afford it' response, but those responses can't be heard when it comes to corporate welfare like this?
 
I agree with you but the government introduced the scheme. It's not the companies driving it so still not sure why you accused this particular company of slave labour. Business did not go looking for this scheme and they certainly didn't ask for private pensions to be raided to pay for it. Having said all that, schemes like this are very successful for young people in countries like Germany and France. They just have to be
managed properly.
 

I don't think too many disagree with you, but that it's too early to say whether or not the scheme has been effective. I share the same concerns largely that there is no focus to the scheme and so no means of accurate measurement. I think there should have been some specific criteria (I'm not aware of any) relating to anyone advertising a position that shows a value to the state and applicants before companies can take on an "intern". At the moment it appears to be simply that any work is better than no work.

Again though, another poster also indicated this, has anyone spoken to those on the scheme? do they feel like "slaves"? I've seen a small sample of this scheme work and work very very well.

Once the data is in let's compare that to the record of FAS and then see which was the biggest waste of money.
 
I look forward to using the 'we didn't ask for it' defence the next time public sector salaries/pensions/spending is attacked here on AAM. I'm sure it will go down a bomb with the usual suspects.

Having said all that, schemes like this are very successful for young people in countries like Germany and France. They just have to be
managed properly.
By what measure of success? If you look at is as 'the intern got a job', that is not a real measure of success. If the underlying economics were there to support a job, then the 9 months intern salary didn't have a major impact on this. It was just a handy subsidy for the employer. Does the State pay the intern's salary in Germany & France? How many of these jobs would have been created anyway, without the internship programme?

Again though, another poster also indicated this, has anyone spoken to those on the scheme? do they feel like "slaves"? I've seen a small sample of this scheme work and work very very well.
I presume that in your 'small sample', the interns were paid something by the employer? If I was in there shoes, I might feel the same way, but that ignores the big picture. The real question is whether these jobs/posts would exist anyway, without the State subsidy.
 

I have no idea why you are bringing public sector pay into the discussion.

You are accusing a named company of exploiting the scheme and engaging in slave labour without knowing anything about it. I have no idea if the post would have existed without the scheme or not. Just like you don't. But I presume proper controls have been put in place by the Government. Just because you don't agree with the scheme does not give you the right to come on this site and accuse a specific company of exploiting people. You are the first person to jump down peoples throats when wild accusations with no proof are made.

I think the €50 supplement on top of social welfare is ridiculous but the idea of the scheme itself has merit. I just don't trust the Government to run it (see FAS). To be honest, I am amazed that you are accusing a Labour Minister of Social Welfare of running an exploitative scheme that benefits businesses at the expense of employees.
 
According to ICTU:

"Properly implemented this scheme can secure a better deal for young and other unemployed people that need quality work experience. It can help people augment or upgrade their skills and work experience and can really work to their advantage - but it must be properly monitored and controlled to avoid abuse," Ms Lunch said

Don't think anyone can argue with that.
 

I presume you take the bulk of a post that pretty much backs up your concerns and agrees with you to just pick on one aspect.

But you actually presume wrong in this case. As per my post where I detailed what had happened late last year, it is the same as how the system is operating now. There was no payment from the employer (some gave free lunches).

The last part of the question is no, they probably wouldn't. But again, this is a matter of employer's realising in many cases that they do need the extra staff, that that the current workforce has been trimmed to such an extent that they need to start bringing in resources again.

I think that once again, it's just too early to judge the merits of the programme.