Cost of living and Credit

average vs. experience

Yes, I agree, my post was responding to Adolphus Briggs.

Note that theses figures are merely averages, and may hide huge wage dispersions within industry.

e.g. pharma and chemical industry = higher wages
textiles = lower wages
 
Re: average vs. variation

Averages on their own are very limited. However, averages with some measure of variation (ie standard deviation) tell a much fuller story. I notice that the cso does not quote the standard deviation on this report, I think it would be very usefull if they did.
ajapale
 
AIW

One thing confuses me though.

In the Budget coverage it's been said a couple of times that 1/3 of workers are now paying rate at the top rate of tax.

But if the Average Industrial Wage is around 28000 then surely almost half are! Unless there are huge swathes of people on less than 28000 who are not part of the calculation. Why make them part of one calculation but not part of another?

Also, with the AIW expected to be 29400 (i think) next year, surely the percentage on the top rate will be over half. Again unless there are huge number of lost souls on low income.

This may explain Adolphus Briggs' feeling that the AIW figure is too high.

On the original question, I've started reading and hearing stories about Illegal Money Lenders again. Last time I heard these was in the 80's. All statistics aside that tells it's own story.

-Rd
 
AIW

I wouldn't dream of implying that the CSO are anything but professional and I think they do an excellent job. But in the context of a discussion about personal finances, the quoted AIW is being bandied about as if everybody is earning 28K a year. If the standard Deviation was published with the AIW report then it would be pretty clear that there is a huge gap between the rich and the poor.

I realise that industrial wages are not just about production operatives but given the very large (though shrinking) number of these workers, who definitely don't earn much more than 16-17K tops, they are a section of society that cannot be ignored, particularly when it is this section of society who are most likely to develop the very debt problems we are discussing here. Add hotel workers, cinema employees, sandwich bar staff, and all the other badly paid service jobs to the mix and you have a very significant number of citizens who fall well below the AIW.

While I realise that anyone can get into debt, cash flow plays a significant part in getting out of it and cash flow is simply not available to low earners who are suffering from massive credit card debt, car payments and 100% mortgages (The CU "deposit" trick is practised widely) The 28K figure should not be used when discussing this particular type or earner as it has no relevance and will lead to incorrect conclusions about the individual's ability to service consumer debt.

And Skinflint, it was John Pilger, not Robert Fisk, but you had a valid point. I'm only telling as I see it around me. I personally think its time to start teaching financial responsibility in school, may be instead of Irish, I know which one I'd prefer my kids to learn.
 
Re: AIW

I personally think its time to start teaching financial responsibility in school, may be instead of Irish, I know which one I'd prefer my kids to learn.

I agree, but perhaps they could start teaching Personal Finance at the Irish Speaking Schools and you'd get the best of both worlds.

Apparently these schools punch well above their weight at exam time.

-Rd

"Rich is better than Poor,
if only for financial reasons"
-Woody Allen (I think)
 
useless statistics

its quite feasible that the average industrial wage is 28k while most people might be earning under 20K - I don't know.

Arithmetic Averages for salary figures, house price figures, etc are not useful as they are always skewed by the few people who are earning very large salaries. It makes more sense to look at the median - by definition 50% of people earn more than the median salary.

There are many more lower paid jobs in the service and retail sectors, where most of the jobs growth has been over the last few years.
 
Above

I work, outside of office hours, in the voluntary sector and I'm very very interested in what the Consumer Association is now saying because it concurs with a view I've had for some years. I'm very interested in this discussion. Do you think that people on the AIW or marginally below are forced to resort to credit to live in Ireland, or is the problem over-stated?
 
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