conveyancing (additional fee)

[Complainer]

I heard Tom Parlon now of the CIF claiming that the new Govt policy of requiring fixed fee all-inclusive pricing on major infrastructural projects will work against the Govt, as developers will build in costs for all possible contingencies, regardless of whether these actually come to bear.

But if the recent Mail on Sunday article was right, the Soprano-llike cartel operated by the developers will ensure that the Govt lose in the end regardless.

 

[Bronte]

Vanilla of course I agree with you re the car having a problem and you having to pay extra to fix that particular problem ( and the roof thing LD) I'm not saying the professional is not entitled to be paid for the work done of course not. Issues arrise but I do think that the purchaser should not have to pay for the negligence of the previous solicitors work. I add that we do not know if that is the case here. If there is a problem with title it is generally not the fault of the purchaser, you go back 20 years to justify the fact that the OP has to pay extra (and OP you are willing to pay the extra). The missing document is not the OP's fault so why should he have to pay.
LD of course if you want to get a property and you have to pay extra to sort out someone else's mess then that's what you do in life. You pay the 500 to get it sorted out. That's what I do too.

But it's not right.

For those who mention hourly rates, in general I try not to deal with anyone who gives me hourly rates (except in one situation here abroad where I have to use one of the big accountancy firms and they charged me 1K for a letter last year - but that's another story and something I had no control over). I don't have the name of an accountant in Ireland as I do all my taxes myself for the person who asked me the name of an accountant. Re builders, I have over the years hired many tradespeople and for all jobs I get a price, I would never hire someone by the hour.

I think there is a big difference in Ireland in the way the big firms in Dublin price and the way a local solicitor/accountant etc prices jobs. I think that most solicitors charge the same price for job 1 2 & 3 of LD's example yesterday, and that that is actually the way it really works (in general) but maybe I'm incorrect and things have changed. MF1 or Vanilla or MOB(all solicitors?) might correct me on this. Probably also know now based on OP's post - deed of grant- who caused the title problem.

I still go back to this point if you are buying a house, your home, you should be able to go to a professional and get a price for buying that includes a figure that covers any contingency. It's not the same as going to court where you take your chances (that's apparently going to change now too as barristers will also have to give their fees in advance).
Obviously I stand alone on this issue but that's just the way I see it and so far I've not been convinced otherwise.

Just to add I have nothing against professionals and have excellent dealing's with those I hire so please don't see this as an attack on any particular class, I try to think out of the box and those inside the box don't always see it from the otherside.

 

[LDFerguson]

I still go back to this point if you are buying a house, your home, you should be able to go to a professional and get a price for buying that includes a figure that covers any contingency.

Okay - the only workable way for any legal practice to operate on those terms is to put up their fees for all conveyances in order to cover any contingencies within their fixed-price quote.

If they do that, the majority of customers who have no title issues will be unfairly subsidising the minority who do.

 

[ubiquitous]

I still go back to this point if you are buying a house, your home, you should be able to go to a professional and get a price for buying that includes a figure that covers any contingency.

If any professional is willing to take on work on such terms, they are either insane or desperate (in which case you should seriously consider why you are engaging them in the first instance) or they are taking such a massive profit margin on the deal that they can afford to absorb any cost increase if additional work is needed.

Some of the very large audit, legal, construction and consulting firms price assignments on an "all in, fixed price, no matter what..." basis but they charge stratospheric fees for doing so.

Their business model is such that if they can charge €200,000 for a project for which their costs are €50,000, they can still complete the assignment at breakeven, even if their costs quadruple, and if the costs increase beyond this level, they can offset the loss on that job against profits on other jobs.

The customer who opts for this pricing system is normally paying a massive premium for certainty. Its questionable whether this represents good value for them. In everyday terms, it rarely makes sense for an ordinary individual to go to the likes of PwC or Ernst & Young for a simple tax return, or to a major multinational legal firm for an everyday property conveyance. A smaller accountant or solicitor who charges a more realistic price on an "excluding contingencies" basis will normally deliver an equivalent level of service for a lot less money.

 

[Complainer]

If any professional is willing to take on work on such terms, they are either insane or desperate (in which case you should seriously consider why you are engaging them in the first instance) or they are taking such a massive profit margin on the deal that they can afford to absorb any cost increase if additional work is needed.

Some of the very large audit, legal, construction and consulting firms price assignments on an "all in, fixed price, no matter what..." basis but they charge stratospheric fees for doing so.

Their business model is such that if they can charge €200,000 for a project for which their costs are €50,000, they can still complete the assignment at breakeven, even if their costs quadruple, and if the costs increase beyond this level, they can offset the loss on that job against profits on other jobs.

The customer who opts for this pricing system is normally paying a massive premium for certainty. Its questionable whether this represents good value for them.

Having been on both sides (buyer and seller) of some of these large fixed-price deals, I don't think your description is quite accurate. The large consultancies will generally only quote a fixed price when they have sufficient information to prepare a detailed estimate. In IT projects, this typically means that a detailed functional specification will have been prepared (possibly by the same consultants on their last assignment), and the level of technology risk is relatively low.