Community welfare officers (CWOs) average €300/child on communion grants.

[T McGibney]

When children are brought through the religious preparation in school for their first Holy Communion, the sole focus for parents can be the social dimension, making the day an event.

If the schools left the preparation to the parents, the parents may be more engaged in the sacrament. Ideally, that might dampen the enthusiasm for the event, and focus more on the sacrament.

Can you please explain how you come to that conclusion as your logic utterly escapes me.

Also, in a vox-pop on RTE Radio yesterday, from IIRC Galway, more than one person mentioned 'parents wanting to give their children the best'. IMHO, that should be 'parents wanting to give their children the best that they can afford'.

... or perhaps 'parents wanting to show off, even if they can't afford it' .

And remember, we can all afford everything, once the State is picking up the tab.

 

[micmclo]

The people who can least afford it are the ones who splash out the most

Isn't that an anecdotal thing people say

Just an observation

 

[mloc]

Getting back to the point in question, there are plenty of ways for kids to be kitted out for around the €100 mark or less.
There are loads of examples of good quality communion sets for decent prices in here.

Regardless of where parents think the emphasis should be (the sacrament/the appearance of the kids/the party afterwards) there should be less pressure when it comes to buying the clothes.

 

[TarfHead]

Can you please explain how you come to that conclusion as your logic utterly escapes me.

I didn't come to a conclusion. Note the use of may be, might & Ideally.

In my experience, the worst excesses of the first Holy Communion celebration are undertaken by those with the least commitment to the sacrament and the Church.

The family I cited as spending excessively on the children's dresses have not been seen at family Mass since then.

If parents were more involved with the religious preparation of their children, the focus on the sacrament might lessen the focus on the event. One mate of mine has his children at an Educate Together school. He took each of them to classes in the local church for their preparation for first Holy Communion. Even though he is, relatively, affluent, his family's celebration of each first holy Communion was low-key.

 

[Firefly]

This issue has nothing to do with religion in schools, so I don't see the point in pretending otherwise just to allow you have a swipe at it.

Easy there tiger! I wasn't having a swipe at all. As a Catholic myself with a strong enough, non church-going faith, I am planning on sending my children to Catholic schools because they happen to be excellent schools. I'd prefer if religion wasn't taught during the school day at all and the extra time was spent on something useful like a foreign language. I do agree though that this isn't relevant to this particular debate, so I'll edit my post accordingly.

 

[terrysgirl33]

It kind of comes down to identifying where the pressure comes from for the big show in the first place. It's not coming from the church. My children go to an Educate Together school, so I don't think it's coming from there, but does it come from the school in other schools? I just can't see teachers encouraging that kind of showmanship at all (maybe I know the wrong teachers!).

 

[The_Banker]

This has nothing to do with religion or Catholicism. The clergy are horrified with the circus of excess that First Holy Communion has become and many priests and bishops have spoken out against it in the media and locally, only to be decried as 'spoilsports' by their usual critics.

The ridiculous Communion Grants are all to do with the naked political vote buying regime of Bertie Ahern and his chums, that we (not they) are paying for.

Mary Lou McDonald is happy for her party to shut schools throughout Northern Ireland in a dubious attempt to save money but wants this sort of wilful waste to continue in the Republic. I wonder why?

Really?
Then why not have a FHC day during a normal Sunday mass?

 

[Purple]

Really?
Then why not have a FHC day during a normal Sunday mass?

Because it is a big deal from a religious perspective but has nothing to do with wealth, consumerism or showing off to the neighbours. In fact Christianity should be about the opposit of that.

 

[Guest105]

It is a funny situation really considering the vast majority of Irish people are now 'a la carte' Catholics and the Communion day is a day for the parents to get blind drunk rather than concentrating on the enjoyment of the children.

Yes I believe in general the exceptional needs payments are widely abused and it is about time that the whole Social Welfare System in Ireland received a complete overhaul.

In the UK there is no such thing as exceptional Needs payments, there used to be a benefit called a Communty Grant where you paid back the money over time but now with the cut backs its nearly impossible to get that, a single person gets £67 a week on the dole and that is it. It is not easy to live on that money every week considering basic groceries such as two litres of milk now cost £1.20, a loaf of bread £1.50 and half a pound of butter cost £1.45.

 

[Guest105]

Getting back to the point in question, there are plenty of ways for kids to be kitted out for around the €100 mark or less.
There are loads of examples of good quality communion sets for decent prices in here.

Regardless of where parents think the emphasis should be (the sacrament/the appearance of the kids/the party afterwards) there should be less pressure when it comes to buying the clothes.

Nothing cheap about those clothes on your second link considering there are second hand

 

[RMCF]

IF you look at this logically, or from an outsider to the country looking in, then its hard to understand why the taxpayer should pay for people to get ready for their FHC.

Of course it all stems back to the power of the Church in this country, but if so, why are peoples weddings not given a subsidy from the Gov?

I say cut it all to zero, and make children do it in their school uniforms. Problem solved. You'd get uproar for a while but we'd soon get used to it, and silly money being spent would be a thing of the past, and the important part of the day might actually be focused on.

You wouldn't think this country was bust the way some people are giving off about this.

 

[Delboy]

IF you look at this logically, or from an outsider to the country looking in, then its hard to understand why the taxpayer should pay for people to get ready for their FHC.

Of course it all stems back to the power of the Church in this country, but if so, why are peoples weddings not given a subsidy from the Gov?

I say cut it all to zero, and make children do it in their school uniforms. Problem solved. You'd get uproar for a while but we'd soon get used to it, and silly money being spent would be a thing of the past, and the important part of the day might actually be focused on.

You wouldn't think this country was bust the way some people are giving off about this.

it has nothing to do with the Church's power in the past, present of future. As I said in my earlier post, the CWO's are dishing out cash for any teary eyed story and mostly to the same few who've always got their hands out.
And this country is only too willing to give money to the 'disadvantaged'....but thankfully change is happening

 

[Marion]

€300 paid to claimants in Dublin - the highest amount paid in any region for religious ceremonies - communion and confirmation - seems to be obscene. I doubt dresses/suits/outfits cost more in Dublin!


The grant should be abolished - not cut by 50%.

Marion

 

[mloc]

I didn't come to a conclusion. Note the use of may be, might & Ideally.

In my experience, the worst excesses of the first Holy Communion celebration are undertaken by those with the least commitment to the sacrament and the Church.

The family I cited as spending excessively on the children's dresses have not been seen at family Mass since then.

If parents were more involved with the religious preparation of their children, the focus on the sacrament might lessen the focus on the event. One mate of mine has his children at an Educate Together school. He took each of them to classes in the local church for their preparation for first Holy Communion. Even though he is, relatively, affluent, his family's celebration of each first holy Communion was low-key.

That is extremely harsh.
Why should a person who has made their communion have commitment to the church? Surely the commitment is to God?

 

[Marion]

I have 12 nieces. A total of 3 dresses have been purchased over a 24 year period for First communion

The first dress was a badge of honour worn by 7 nieces and was shipped back and forth across the Atlantic. The girls could not wait to wear it and all talked of Joanna's dress. It looked as beautiful on the seventh girl as on the first.

The second dress was worn by 3 sisters who wanted an heirloom of their own.

The third dress was worn by 2 sisters.

Funnily enough, all the boys - 3 for so far - had new outfits. The last boy is a couple of years away from his second big religious event.

Not all managed to receive confirmation. Atheism took hold!

Marion

 

[Lex Foutish]

IF you look at this logically, or from an outsider to the country looking in, then its hard to understand why the taxpayer should pay for people to get ready for their FHC.

Of course it all stems back to the power of the Church in this country, but if so, why are peoples weddings not given a subsidy from the Gov?

I say cut it all to zero, and make children do it in their school uniforms. Problem solved. You'd get uproar for a while but we'd soon get used to it, and silly money being spent would be a thing of the past, and the important part of the day might actually be focused on.

You wouldn't think this country was bust the way some people are giving off about this.

Great post, RMFC.

€300 paid to claimants in Dublin - the highest amount paid in any region for religious ceremonies - communion and confirmation - seems to be obscene. I doubt dresses/suits/outfits cost more in Dublin!


The grant should be abolished - not cut by 50%.

Marion

I completely agree. Most of the kids I know who make their Communion and Confirmation make hundreds of euro, over a thousand in many Confirmation cases. Surely the expense could be taken, post event, from this money. . . .

And I agree with posters who say that the religious meaning, on the day, is of secondary importance in many cases. I know of a situation in the past year, locally, where two mothers spent over a grand on Communion outfits for themselves, in an effort to out do each other on the day. Not the norm, I admit, but it happens.

A few years ago, a boy we know, who was in 6th class at the time, told us that he couldn't wait for his Confirmation. When I "innocently" asked him why, he replied, "Pay Day!"

Computer, phone, electronic and gadget shops do very well in Cork in the days immediately following Confirmation, and all of their customers aren't middle or upper class children . . . . .

 

[Lex Foutish]

I have 12 nieces. A total of 3 dresses have been purchased over a 24 year period for First communion

The first dress was a badge of honour worn by 7 nieces and was shipped back and forth across the Atlantic. The girls could not wait to wear it and all talked of Joanna's dress. It looked as beautiful on the seventh girl as on the first.

The second dress was worn by 3 sisters who wanted an heirloom of their own.

The third dress was worn by 2 sisters.

Funnily enough, all the boys - 3 for so far - had new outfits. The last boy is a couple of years away from his first big family event.

Marion

This post made me smile, Marion. My daughter's Communion dress was made from my wife's wedding dress.

 

[Marion]

This post made me smile, Marion. My daughter's Communion dress was made from my wife's wedding dress.

Aw! Lex, that's a wonderful story.

Marion

 

[Lex Foutish]

That is extremely harsh.
Why should a person who has made their communion have commitment to the church? Surely the commitment is to God?

Hi Mloc. To be fair, communion and other sacraments are more of a Church thing than a God thing. If Christians' commitment was more to God than to the Church, I doubt if there would be any need for sacraments.

I myself have been guilty of taking the kids to mass every Sunday in the run up to their Confirmation and not being too pushed about it all afterwards. If I had my time back, I'm not sure I'd be too put out if they didn't make the sacraments. At the time, our kids would have wanted their big day and they would have stuck out like sore thumbs as the only kids in the class not making it, which is possibly a factor for many parents thinking along those lines also. But nobody in our house goes to Mass now or has anything at all to do with the Church.

And speaking of sacraments, it's Confession time . . . Until I heard about this on the radio this morning, I didn't know that such grants existed. For an instant, I thought it was a wind up or something like an April Fool's joke. Does anyone know when these grants were introduced or have they been in existence for a long time?

 

[Marion]

These grants are definitely in existence for a long time.

I remember my late mother telling me about asking a client whom she asked about her second daughter's communion and saying it was great she could wear her sister's dress - worn one year earlier.

She was met with "On no! my daughter will have a new dress and won't be wearing a second-hand dress."

Shock horror!

This woman was receiving social welfare.

This was shocking to us at the time - at least 10 years ago.

Marion