Common law relationship breakup and property query

[ailbhe]

Hi all.
My ex partner broke up with me about 6 months ago.
We bought a house together 2 years ago.

Using made up figures the mortgage is in joint names as is the property and it is say €1000 per month.
Rent in our area is say €500 pm.

I earn less than he does so wasn't in a position to pay the mortgage alone. He was. So I moved out.

We were going to keep the house and sell at a later stage. We agreed he would pay the mortgage in full and we would sign a legal agreement stating my financial interest in the house wouldn't be affected if I wasn't contributing.
We never got around to drawin that up and instead put the house on the market.
Things have soured considerably since then, though they are still civil.
I contacted him today requesting items from the house one of which he didn't want me to have as he uses it but I paid for it a couple of weeks before we broke up.
I took nothing from the house in terms of furniture, appliances etc.

He then began going on about how hard done by he is feeling having to pay "my mortgage". I pointed out he made the decison that I should move out.
He then said we need to go to the solicitor again as "things can't continue the way they are". I pointed out that if he doesn't want to pay the whole mortgage then really the only option is for me to move back in as I cannot afford rent + my portion of the mortgage (mortgage - possible rental income / 2). Works out at about 300 pm. I pay rent, creche for my daughter (not his bio daughter but he still has access as agreed between us but doesn't contribute financially).

He says he doesn't want me to move back in (I don't want to move back in either). he thinks if I move back in then he can move out and leave me paying the full mortgage. Pointed out he can't do that either.

I am going to my solicitor this evening to discuss options. In the meantime has anyone any other alternatives? Or does anyone want to buy a house??

 

[Padraigb]

What would happen if he decided to live in the house permanently? I presume you would feel that you have some interest in the property, and would want to be compensated. In other words, I am supposing that you don't see it as a situation from which you want to walk away.

It seems clear that your former partner is paying more to have a place to live than you are, and might be feeling hard done by. Perhaps you need to acknowledge his contribution very explicitly, putting a value on it, and agreeing that he be compensated out of the proceeds of sale.

Taking your made-up figures: he is paying out €1000 pm and deriving the benefit of using the house, worth €500 pm. So the other €500 pm should be a shared cost, but you can't pay your share. Agree that he should be entitled to recover that amount with interest from the proceeds of sale, whenever it happens.

It might be useful to seek the help of an arbitrator who is good with figures.

 

[ailbhe]

He does not want to live there permanantly. I would walk away with nothing if I could. The house is valued at about 300k. Mortgage is 292k. Rest would be eaten up with solicitors fees.

If I could sign it over to him tomorrow I would. But he cannot get a mortgage for it on his own, nor does he want to.

As for him being compensated for the amount he is paying to cover my "share" of the mortgage, my rent is more than half the mortgage.
He agreed when we broke up that I would rent privately and he would cover the cost of the mortgage. It was an agreement to save us from having to live together.

I don't feel I should have to compensate him when the option is there for me to live in the house and pay half the mortgage (which is less than my rent) but he doesn't want to do this either.
I don't want to do that and will avoid it if possible but not at a cost to myself.

 

[dazza21ie]

Could he rent out a room in the property to help towards the mortgage?

I think the main thing to concentrate on is selling the property. It looks like nobody is going to gain from this and hopefully you don't lose anything either.

 

[ailbhe]

Could he rent out a room in the property to help towards the mortgage?

I suggested that when I moved out initially. He doesn't want to do that either.

House is on the market a few months now. I suggested the price was unrealistic but was shot down (asking price is 330k - I think based on other properties and an estate agent friend that 300k is more realistic). Now 6 months on and no viewings he is starting to realise I might be right and that we could be stuck with this house for a long time.

 

[Padraigb]

Let's recast this:
- you would settle for a clean break and walk away with nothing if that were possible;
- he probably has some leverage because you are a party to the mortgage;
- you probably have some leverage because you have a right to live in the house.

He does not want you in the house with him, nor does he want anybody else living there either. In my opinion, he is being unreasonable in wanting sole occupancy of a house to which you both seem to have rights. But I'd bet his opinion is different.

How would it be if he moved out, you moved back in, and rented out a room?

I stick with my suggestion that you might benefit from using an arbitrator.

 

[ailbhe]

Let's recast this:
- you would settle for a clean break and walk away with nothing if that were possible;
- he probably has some leverage because you are a party to the mortgage;
- you probably have some leverage because you have a right to live in the house.

He does not want you in the house with him, nor does he want anybody else living there either. In my opinion, he is being unreasonable in wanting sole occupancy of a house to which you both seem to have rights. But I'd bet his opinion is different.

How would it be if he moved out, you moved back in, and rented out a room?

That pretty much sums it up. he wants it all in my opinion.

I could move back in with my daughter and rent the other two rooms.
In theory I would get about half the rent €250, I could top up the other half(250) plus my half of the outstanding costs(250) That would work out at roughly half the cost of the mortgage that I am paying (500).

However I doubt he would go for it as he would then be paying private rent(500) and the balance of the outstanding amount(250) so wouldn't be saving anything(total 750) compared to me paying the outstanding amount and not living there if you know what I mean? I would be paying the 250 so the mortgage would be 750 for him.

When i tot it all up (in pretend figures) what he wants is for me to pay out €750 pm for rent and balance on mortgage while I live in a 3 bed mid terrace townhouse with my daughter which is tiny, while he pays €750 and lives in our 2000sq ft, 4 bed detatched house on his own!

He also wants me to move back in if he manages to get a job in the town he wants to move to, rather than getting tenants in and I would only pay what I am paying in rent. But until then I am not allowed move back in.

He's quite bitter and awkard really. We don't even speak anymore so it is impossible to reason with him and discuss options. Everything I suggest is wrong so I have given up trying to discuss things. I just want to get it sorted once and for all as he is always throwing the fact that he pays the mortgage back in my face.

 

[EASTCORK]

Hi Ailbhe, may I ask did you and he have a child with your ex?
EC

 

[ailbhe]

Hi Ailbhe, may I ask did you and he have a child with your ex?
EC

No. We were ogether since she was a baby(she's 6 now) but he isn't her biological father.

I went to the solicitor today who advised that if he wants me to pay the balance of my share of the mortgage there is very little I can do to contest it.
However if he were to do so I would be well within my rights to move back into the house and pay half the mortgage.

I rang the ex and explained that to him. He ranted and raved a bit at first but eventually got the message which was we continue as we are (and sign a legal agreement to this effect where he agrees that my interest in the house is not affected because I am not contributing) or else I will have to move back in and share the house as I cannot afford to pay rent and the mortgage. He still feels hard done by but appreciates I am not in a position to do anything else.
We are having the agreement drawn up for a year and will review it in 12 months. I doubt anything will have changed by then and I am sure there will be ructions and the same song and dance but c'est la vie.
He has to realise that those are the options available and if he wants to not live with me then he has to appreciate that there is a cost involved which is not my fault, it is just circumstantial.

 

[Bronte]

This is a right mess. Were you not told the option of selling the house particularly if it will repay the mortgage. If you don't get on with someone it's best to make a clean break. If you do decide to both live in the house can you divide it into two separate units, but in anycase I don't advise you moving back in. What if you or he gets a new partner.

 

[ailbhe]

The house is up for sale but in the current market it will take a while to sell it.
He has a new partner (the girl he left me for ), however he plans on moving to where she is if he can get a job there. That is when he will expect me to move back in as I am staying where we currently live.

I am currently single but I guess if I were to get a new partner and we were to buy a house it would make sense for us to buy ex out (stamp duty etc) but I won't be holding my breath for that to happen either.

It is a big mess. I have tried to stay on decent terms with him as he still plays a father role in my daughters life but his new partner hates him even speaking to me so everything is done via text or email. Makes it very difficult but he refuses anything else.

Anyway, it seems to be settled (ish) for now. However long the peace lasts

 

[truthseeker]

Hi Ailbhe,
Sorry to hear about your circumstances, sounds messy.

Whats the position on pricing the house to sell i.e., reducing the price enough to guarantee a quick sale?
Using your figures - could you sell it at 280 and borrow the 12 outstanding (half each) plus solicitors fees? I know it would cost money, but its costing money to service the mortgage, plus you may end up chasing a falling market and lose even more if it isnt budging but the price stays where it is to cover the mortgage?

Alternatively could he move out and rent out the entire property until a later date when the market has recovered OR until there is enough paid off the mortgage (by rent) that ye could sell and get enough to cover the amount outstanding.

It sounds like his new partner is jealous of his past, is it necessary that he stays in yourself and your daughters life seeing as he is not her biological father? I realise this may sound cold but he sounds like he is difficult so rather than face problems down the line would a clean break now be better for all concerned? What will happen if he has biological children of his own - its possible (way down the line) that there could be issues if he is spending time with your daughter when and if he has his own children?
That would all just be more stress in yourself and your daughters life.

 

[ailbhe]

Whats the position on pricing the house to sell i.e., reducing the price enough to guarantee a quick sale?
Using your figures - could you sell it at 280 and borrow the 12 outstanding (half each) plus solicitors fees? I know it would cost money, but its costing money to service the mortgage, plus you may end up chasing a falling market and lose even more if it isnt budging but the price stays where it is to cover the mortgage?.

It is something we have discussed but we both have loans from furnishing the house etc and just can't afford to add to that. My budget is minimal as it is.It would be just way too much to take on.

Alternatively could he move out and rent out the entire property until a later date when the market has recovered OR until there is enough paid off the mortgage (by rent) that ye could sell and get enough to cover the amount outstanding..

Renting it out isn't going to solve the issue as there is still the balance to be paid and I can't afford half that balance on top of my current outgoings. We would be short by about 400 based on current rental prices (i've looked into it)

It sounds like his new partner is jealous of his past, is it necessary that he stays in yourself and your daughters life seeing as he is not her biological father? I realise this may sound cold but he sounds like he is difficult so rather than face problems down the line would a clean break now be better for all concerned? What will happen if he has biological children of his own - its possible (way down the line) that there could be issues if he is spending time with your daughter when and if he has his own children?
That would all just be more stress in yourself and your daughters life.

I did consider all that when we broke up initially and at the end of the day it isn't my choice to make.
My daughter adores her "daddy" and I amn't the one who will take that from her even though I would prefer not to have him in my life.

But I am the one who would have to face her when she is older and explain that I stopped her daddy seeing her.
If he chooses to mess it up in the future for whatever reason, then that will be something he has to live with and my daughter will know she has at least one parent she can trust and rely on.

 

[truthseeker]

It is something we have discussed but we both have loans from furnishing the house etc and just can't afford to add to that. My budget is minimal as it is.It would be just way too much to take on.

Oh I see - I didnt know you both already had loans - definitely not a runner then.

Renting it out isn't going to solve the issue as there is still the balance to be paid and I can't afford half that balance on top of my current outgoings. We would be short by about 400 based on current rental prices (i've looked into it)

So financially thats not a runner then either.
Is there any way of re-jigging the mortgage (make the term longer so the repayments are lower) - that might give some leeway for renting?

Is there any chance his new girlfriend would buy out your half and take on the mortgage with him?

I did consider all that when we broke up initially and at the end of the day it isn't my choice to make.
My daughter adores her "daddy" and I amn't the one who will take that from her even though I would prefer not to have him in my life.

But I am the one who would have to face her when she is older and explain that I stopped her daddy seeing her.
If he chooses to mess it up in the future for whatever reason, then that will be something he has to live with and my daughter will know she has at least one parent she can trust and rely on.

I suppose seeing as he was in her life since she was a baby the bonds are no different than if he was her biological father (to her).
Probably what will happen with his new girlfriend is that she will back off when she sees over time that there is no reason to be jealous. Often these petty jealousies resolve themselves when all parties realise the world hasnt fallen apart through the contact their partner has with an ex because of a child.
You are definitely being mature as regards their relationship anyway so thats a positive within all of this.

 

[Diziet]

The house is up for sale but in the current market it will take a while to sell it.

I think you have to be realistic here. The house will sell if it is priced well. If it is priced above similar properties in the area, then it will not sell. It will not take 'a while', it will take 'forever'. And the market is not magically going to improve in the short term.

If you are genuinely trying to sell the house, then ask an auctioneer for a realistic price, which will be less than the other properties in the estate. 6 months with no viewing means that buyers think it is too expensive.

Unfortunately, what you and your partner hope to get from the sale and what someone will actually pay to buy the property are entirely different things.

I am glad peace has descended for now, but you do need to sort this out sooner rather than later.

 

[ailbhe]

Is there any chance his new girlfriend would buy out your half and take on the mortgage with him?.

She's 21 and in college so i doubt it. She lives in a city about an hour from the small town we live in. His family are there also so they want to live there. I am happy enough in the small town we currently live in so am staying here.

You are definitely being mature as regards their relationship anyway so thats a positive within all of this.

It took a while for me to get there and I had my moments but it's water under the bridge at this stage

 

[truthseeker]

Could YOU buy him out and take over the full mortgage - then rent out some of the rooms to supplement the repayments?

 

[ailbhe]

I think you have to be realistic here. The house will sell if it is priced well. If it is priced above similar properties in the area, then it will not sell. It will not take 'a while', it will take 'forever'. And the market is not magically going to improve in the short term.

If you are genuinely trying to sell the house, then ask an auctioneer for a realistic price, which will be less than the other properties in the estate. 6 months with no viewing means that buyers think it is too expensive.

Unfortunately, what you and your partner hope to get from the sale and what someone will actually pay to buy the property are entirely different things.

I am glad peace has descended for now, but you do need to sort this out sooner rather than later.

i know and if I could cut the price I would. I want to reduce it, he doesn't. It is the only house in the estate that is for sale of that size (rest are 3 bed semis) so it is hard to get him to realise that we need to drop the price.
I can't reduce the selling price without his agreement and for now, unhappy and all as he is about paying the mortgage, he is unwilling to agree to reduce the price.

 

[Padraigb]

It can be difficult to disentangle interpersonal difficulties from financial arrangements. It looks to me as if you have achieved that for the time being. That's probably as good a result as you can get, especially as your former partner has a wish to re-organise his life.

If you can manage to put the thing on the back burner for now, and concentrate on the more rewarding aspects of your own life, it would be good.

 

[ailbhe]

Could YOU buy him out and take over the full mortgage - then rent out some of the rooms to supplement the repayments?

I wish I could. But I can't get a mortgage alone. I earn about 25k per annum. Would need to get a mortgage of 292k. Banks aren't that desperate