CNBC - Ireland: the worlds biggest Debtor Nation

If you can find the figures Sunny, it would be great. It's clear that GDP (and probably GNP?) are being boosted by the presence of this money that comes and goes. But we can't really have it both ways - we can't claim that the external debt figure is meaningless as it includes the IFSC while at the same time saying we have a low debt:GDP (when GDP is artificially boosted by that same IFSC money we've just disowned...

http://www.tribune.ie/business/news...over-cnbc-survey-that-exaggerated-irish-debt/

I agree with you but I would imagine the borrowings of IFSC operations have a much bigger impact on gross debt figures, than what the IFSC contributes to GDP. Could be wrong though. And by the way, I am not arguing against the general point about Ireland's indebteness. Especially in Households and I am not saying we have a low debt:GDP. I am simply suggesting that CNBC should not use figures like this without looking at who is indebted rather than just taking a total figure and suggesting that each man, woman and child is liable for that debt.

I will try and find figures for the IFSC.

By the way I struggle to accept that Luxembourg is better than us in this regard but I can't find an external debt figure for them so not sure.
 
Luxembourg external debt:
[broken link removed]
(excel file)
1.4 tn euro

GDP at end 2007 was 36 bn euro
[broken link removed]

I make that 3,867%?
 
Luxembourg external debt:
[broken link removed]
(excel file)
1.4 tn euro

GDP at end 2007 was 36 bn euro
[broken link removed]

I make that 3,867%?

Kind of what I would expect alright. I don't know how the people of Luxembourg sleep at night!
 
I imagine Monaco, Lichtenstein, Andorra (?), the IOM, the Channel Islands, the Caymans, Bermuda and all the other tin-pot tax havens have the same outcome. Still, it's not exactly stellar company...
 
I quote:
"We'll leave the last word for O'Leary of Ryanair. For all his contempt for government policies, O'Leary is a huge fan of Irish ingenuity. He's an exemplar himself: He bought his own private Mercedes taxi so that he can ride in special commuter lanes and not have to sit in traffic. "Maybe we drink too much, but the Irish are brilliant people," he declares. And they'll need all their blarney and brilliance to get through this crisis."


We'll get through this crisis..
Financial hacks from The Torygraph, Economist, NY Times et al, take note.:)
 
<snip>
So instead of knocking Nobel prize winning economists, or calling George Lee and his ilk ‘doctor doom’, we should be looking for the heads of those who have run this country into the ground.

We need those heads, so this never happens again. If there’s no sanction for destroying an economy and hundreds of thousands of lives, then how can there be sanction for anything?


I have no problem with your advocating accountability - as far as it goes - but what we need is a way out of this mess, not empty heads only good at trading on a rising market thinking they're brilliant.

This includes the banks, the civil servants running the departments, the developers, Cowan, McCreevey and Bertie, who were all just surfing the waves as far as I can see [with no real handle on the underlying situation] and who weren't watching out for the reef.

And unless you haven't bought a house in the last decade and a half or haven't been in business here using credit facilities, you are part of it.

I certainly am, having done both.

As for Dr. Doom...

Public sentiment feeds into a recession like nothing else - as fewer and fewer people buy goods and services to the previous extent and cut back to bare essentials the economy goes into a diminishing spiral.

With Eddie Hobbs merely showing us means to get richer, McWilliams selling books and warning that credit "would become dearer because the Germans are going to stop saving and start buying" and George lee merely reporting the continuing rise in our fortunes without attempting much in the way of cautionary criticism until it wa sfar, far too late, it seems none of the above economic pundits have covered themselves in glory.

Presenting a balanced view with upside and downside is excellent journalism, but one cannot help feel there is a biased view against the government as if they have somehow perosnally benefited from the celtic tigers largesse, as opposed to just taking their salaries and pensions.

Incompetence in the face of a crisis of this nature is understandable.

Unforgivable but understandable.

Our politicians are largely parish pump professionals, not global economic mandarins, and we've seen that even the Wall Street Big Boys could become technically insolvent.

So by all means seek accountability, by all means plug a few holes to stop the leaks for a while, but the me feiner gombeen man mentality is as much a part of us today as it ever was and that's one of the reasons we are where we are today.

What we need for the future is a balanced economy, not one that depends overly on agriculture [as we once did in the 40's and 50's] building [as we once did in the 60's] or finance [the current foolishness].
We need strength in depth in all sectors.

We need investment in infrastructure.

We need a healthier lifestyle, not endless binge drinking and drug taking.

And we need greater investment in education to help achieve our aims and supply growing local markets.

In relation to the Nobel Prize winner, where was that 2.5Trillion figure generated?

Half a million each? I personally owe nothing near that. Its a nonsense to spray figures like that about without showing where they are generated.

As a developer I know said recently,

"Have you ever heard of a rich economist?"
 
Changing the political party serving as our Government won't change the senior civil servants advising them or most of the existing administrative personnel. If you assume that Fianna Fail ministers are entirely to blame for ignoring the quality of advice given to them then a change in political party may work. I would point out that very few people actually warned of the root causes of this economic collapse and if you were reading the newspapers intently you would not have known that this economic collapse was occuring until it became blatantly obvious. It's not just the Government that needs changing. Better insight and analysis is needed throughout our society. I do accept though that Fianna Fail have behaved in a way that merits their removal from power in the best interests of our society. I do not believe however that any other party is likely to do much better, although the level of corruption would decrease.
 
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