Climate change - at last someone tells it like it is

[RMCF]

Its the new bulbs which are definitely not lasting me the 10 years which is sometimes claimed . I am changing my energy efficient lightbulbs once a year lately. In one case I've replaced my energy efficient lightbulb 2 times this year already. So since january theres been 3 bulbs in the socket !
I started using these bulbs early on when they first came out as I have a green streak. However I am very skeptical through experience about the long life claims for these bulbs.




Yeah but are they even more expensive ?

One of the biggest selling points of these bulbs that they try to ram down our throats is that they last you 10 years.

Well its time they stood by this claim. Why don't they print the production date on the bulb/base and then if it fails you can return it within 10yrs (or whatever guarantee they put on it) and get a new one FREE.

I am very skeptical about the entire GW debate (as you may have guessed!!) but for me there seems to be an awful lot of money to be made from it. And getting the world to change all their lightbulbs is just another part of it.

 

[Purple]

What, snake oil salesmen in the Green industry?! Never!

Now I have a range of Environmentally friendly snake oil, if you are interested...

 

[Teabag]

Spot on. It might make you feel nice and fuzzy inside but it'll make bugger all difference to the big picture. Them's the facts, boo-hoo if they don't sit well with the sandal wearers amongst us.
If anyone disagrees try going to Ning-Bo (China's second biggest port) and have a look at the open sewers the size of a river that flow, untreated, into the sea. If you're feeling adventurous pop out to the Gobi desert and have a look at the old-style chemical and power plants that they are building there in order to reduce the pollution in the cities. Note that they are not building more efficient plants, just moving them.

You're right Purple, using energy effecient lightbulbs wont fix the China pollution/emmissions problem.

 

[Purple]

In the context of global warming us using energy efficient light bulbs is like trying to bail out the Titanic with an eggcup.

 

[RMCF]

In the context of global warming us using energy efficient light bulbs is like trying to bail out the Titanic with an eggcup.

Totally correct.

Is it just me, or is GW like a new religion? You can't turn on the TV or radio, or open a paper now without hearing about it. It is getting to 'really annoying' levels, and we have another 50 years to listen to it.

 

[Purple]

No, it's not just you. We should shut up about it and once a month have a one line report in the media saying "Chine, India, USA: still doing F-all about global warming, oh well" or something like that.

 

[Teabag]

In the context of global warming us using energy efficient light bulbs is like trying to bail out the Titanic with an eggcup.

Are we the Titanic ?

I suppose the first step is the hardest. But maybe improved energy efficiency (on many levels) by each and every one of us combined with viable and cheaper alternative energy sources (wind, water, solar, nuclear, biofuel...whatever) will reduce our need for burning of fossil fuels. Would this be a bad thing ?? Are you against wind generators too ?

I dont want to argue about it. Its too late and too fruitless for that.

 

[Purple]

Are we the Titanic ?

I suppose the first step is the hardest. But maybe improved energy efficiency (on many levels) by each and every one of us combined with viable and cheaper alternative energy sources (wind, water, solar, nuclear, biofuel...whatever) will reduce our need for burning of fossil fuels. Would this be a bad thing ?? Are you against wind generators too ?

I dont want to argue about it. Its too late and too fruitless for that.

I'm not against any of that stuff I just want the woolly jumper brigade to acknowledge that it will make feck all difference to global warming. If it makes to feel good or if it improves the local environment then go for it but don't pretend that it makes any impact on the global scale.
…and no, it won’t set an example for the Chinese, Indians or Americans.

 

[ivuernis]

It is now obvious that average global temperatures (for whatever reason) are on the increase, the human population continues on its exponential rise putting ever increasing pressure on the (finite) planetary resources we use and consume. Whatever side of the fence one sits on w.r.t. Climate Change it is pretty hard to argue against all these converging phenomena not resulting in a positive outcome during the course of the 21st century and possibly within the lifespan of most people alive today.

 

[Purple]

It is now obvious that average global temperatures (for whatever reason) are on the increase, the human population continues on its exponential rise putting ever increasing pressure on the (finite) planetary resources we use and consume. Whatever side of the fence one sits on w.r.t. Climate Change it is pretty hard to argue against all these converging phenomena not resulting in a positive outcome during the course of the 21st century and possibly within the lifespan of most people alive today.

yep, but there's nothing us Paddies can do about it other than a bit of tolkenism.

 

[HighFlier]

I went mad a few weeks ago and replaced every bulb in the house with energy saving bulbs. (€200+)

My observations so far:

The wattage equivalent figures they quote don't work out and you need to go at least one size up again to get the same light.
Even then some (but not all) of the bulbs give out a cold watery colour light which is most unattractive

Some types, especially the ones for recessed miniature downlighters, take an age to warm up to full light so they tend to be left lighting all the time.

I have now gone back to the old bulbs in our main living room and the colour quality with the ability to dim them seems fantastic.

They need to do a lot more work on these products even if the range is already better than a few years ago.

If all incandescent bulbs are banned the retail, hotel etc industries who use lighting to cteate a "mood" will be up in arms.

 

[redstar]

Look on the bright side - we'll be able to enjoy wine from the Chateau Wexford vineyards, and make lots of dosh from all the tourists fleeing the super-hot summer weather in the Mediterranean countries

 

[ivuernis]

yep, but there's nothing us Paddies can do about it other than a bit of tolkenism.

I agree. However, we should not use that as an excuse to not change our ways. On a nationalistic level (for many nations) I think the debate will (and should) eventually move away from "solving the global climate change problem" as the realisation dawns that change on such a scale is unlikely to happen in a manner that will achieve any meaningful results. If you accept this then the next step is how on a nationalistic level do you best manage the potential adverse effects of a deteriorating biosphere to ensure as favorable an outcome as possible for a given nation state? To me the obvious answer would be to become as self-sufficient as possible. Given our (Ireland's) relatively small population and density, the fact that we have ample land for such population if it can be kept on such a sustainable level and the potential of our off-shore wind and wave energy (along with our small but dwindling fossil resources) it would seem that Ireland has a chance to weather the storm more favorably than many other nations. This should be our aim and if the by-product is a reduction of our "carbon footprint" will then even better - we've done our bit whilst at the same time hopefully securing some sort of future for future generations on this island. Off course many things could scupper such a goal - resource wars will probably be a staple diet of the 21st century. Somebody with their finger on the button may be crazy enough to "push the button" and visit nuclear armageddon on the world. What would happen if southern Europe became a desert due to GW and tens of millions of EU citizens exercised their right to move freely to other (northern) EU states that had more favorable climate conditions?

I don't wish to come over all fatalistic but unless we think long and hard about where this "human project" is going we are only going to walk blindly into a future we may not like and that future may not like us either. Sometimes (ok, a lot of the time) I think I may be becoming a little unhinged from reality thinking and reading about all these things as most people seem to be oblivious to such things. It's not exactly conducive to a positive outlook on life although I still manage to be relatively happy, but I look around me a lot at what we perceive to be normality but most of the time all I can see is a headless blunder operating under the illusion of a plan and I ask myself it it just me or I am losing the plot? (I have to go now - the men in white suits have just arrived!)

 

[RMCF]

Are we the Titanic ?

I suppose the first step is the hardest. But maybe improved energy efficiency (on many levels) by each and every one of us combined with viable and cheaper alternative energy sources (wind, water, solar, nuclear, biofuel...whatever) will reduce our need for burning of fossil fuels. Would this be a bad thing ?? Are you against wind generators too ?

I dont want to argue about it. Its too late and too fruitless for that.

Sorry but I'm with Purple on this.

Your argument is perfectly logical, but I'm afraid it simply doesn't work.

It doesn't matter one bit if everybody else improves energy efficiency and starts to use wind, water, solar etc AS LONG AS USA, CHINA, INDIA continue burning fossil fuels -which they will for decades to come.

 

[michaelm]

I suppose the first step is the hardest. But maybe improved energy efficiency (on many levels) by each and every one of us combined with viable and cheaper alternative energy sources (wind, water, solar, nuclear, biofuel...whatever) will reduce our need for burning of fossil fuels. Would this be a bad thing ??

I'm all for this, but to the end that Ireland should become self-reliant in relation to our energy needs (and food). But in relation to Climate Change I fully agree with Purple.

 

[annR]

Is anyone actually arguing that anything we do will change anything in US, China and India? It seems to be constantly repeated but I don't recall anyone making that claim. Surely if we can improve things here, it will make a difference to *us*? Maybe we feel that if we make an effort then there'll still be some fish around this island and a few green spaces left in 50 years?
Frankly I don't care if it's because people think they will make a difference to global warming or not. Maybe people aren't stupid and know that we would make a very small difference, but still choose to do that. The whole idea of this being a conspiracy so people can make money out of it ... .. newsflash we're already there a million times . . .our whole society is a conspiracy to make people spend more money. *Any* trend in the marketplace will be exploited to make money. It doesn't mean this particular trend is made up by conspirators.
It's hard to imagine any alternative way of living than we are already in which pressures you to spend more money than we already do. Living more environmentally gives the opposite message from what I can see, for example re-use instead of consume . There are loads of ways of living more sustainably which actually work out cheaper than the mind boggling consumerism we have now, but of course the sceptics will never accept that point never mind give it a go.

 

[Purple]

eeehhhh, but the Thread is about climate change.

 

[annR]

Fair enough. It's just that sceptics on the climate change topic seem to be sceptical about anything environmentally related, for instance you referring to the sandel and woolly jumper brigade. I can't help feeling that that scepticism mixed with lack of political will and short term vision is at least partly to blame for so far stopping us so far putting some proper money and research into greener technologies. With the result that we haven't really made much progress in this area. This drives more scepticism on that people feel that they can't make much difference with their attempts at recycling etc while nothing much on a larger scale has changed. I just feel that scepticism acheives nothing and in this discussion doesn't seem to have anything else to offer except, let's all continue the way we are as it's pointless doing anything different. I disagree with that whole attitude.

 

[Purple]

let's all continue the way we are as it's pointless doing anything different. I disagree with that whole attitude.

Yes it is pointless, utterly pointless, to do anything unless the big three do it as well. Our actions will not stop sea level changes around our coast, they won't effect how the Gulf Stream moves, and they won't effect temperature change or any local climate change. We are one sore on a sick body, the whole body has to be treated for us to get better.
And don’t for a moment think that Ireland will ever lead the charge in any area of technology, especially one that is engineering driven, so we ‘aint going to come up with any “silver bullet” StarTreck style global fixes either.

 

[Teabag]

I'm not against any of that stuff I just want the woolly jumper brigade to acknowledge that it will make feck all difference to global warming. If it makes to feel good or if it improves the local environment then go for it but don't pretend that it makes any impact on the global scale.
…and no, it won’t set an example for the Chinese, Indians or Americans.

You know, the Chinese might surprise you yet.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-12/13/content_6317280.htm

Where there is a will there is a way. Agreed, the US need to get the finger out. I thought Hurricane Katrina was the wakeup call they needed but maybe not.

We all need to do our bit, especially the first world nations. We need to lead by example. If you find it easier to be a pessimist, then so be it.