Cliftonville Supporters

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The_Banker

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I read this morning that there was a minutes silence at the Cliftonville V Glentoran Irish League game last night for David Ervine. Apparently the Cliftonville supporters (predominately Catholic/Nationalist) booed for the duration of the minutes silence.
David Ervine did more since the peace process began than anyone individual (on the ground, as it were) to bring about understanding and reconsiliation between both sides in Northern Ireland. While on the 'other' side as it were, he recognised the right of both sides in Northern Ireland and was articulate in his arguments unlike the oafs who booed last night. This made me sick when I read it.
 
The_Banker said:
IDavid Ervine did more since the peace process began than anyone individual (on the ground, as it were) to bring about understanding and reconsiliation between both sides in Northern Ireland. While on the 'other' side as it were, he recognised the right of both sides in Northern Ireland and was articulate in his arguments
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agree 100%
 
Not very pleasant but hardly a big surprise. Can't imagine there would even be an attempt to have a minutes silence in Windsor Park if Gerry Adams or Martin McGuinness were to pass away.
 
Sunny said:
Not very pleasant but hardly a big surprise. Can't imagine there would even be an attempt to have a minutes silence in Windsor Park if Gerry Adams or Martin McGuinness were to pass away.
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The minute silence was in Glentorans' own ground and David Ervine was a life long Glentoran supporter so I would expect there would be a minute silence for Gerry Adams or Martin McGuinness in Casement Park in the event of either dying.
Irish League soccer is similar to League of Ireland soccer in that it suffers lack of support because of the the near proximity of The Premiership.
To unite a country (as most Nationalists want) then you have have to unite the people also and booing at a minutes silence for someone who saw both sides of the 'argument' is not going to unite anything or anyone.
What made me so angry was the Cliftonville supporters who booed were just mindless oafs who just hate for the sake of hating. Instead of recognising that David Ervine had more in common with them than some of there own 'leaders' who would never enter an IFA soccer ground.
 
The_Banker said:
David Ervine did more since the peace process began than anyone individual (on the ground, as it were) to bring about understanding and reconsiliation between both sides in Northern Ireland.
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I liked Ervine from what I saw and knew of him, but the highlighted part of your statement is a tad extreme.
Instead of recognising that David Ervine had more in common with them than some of there own 'leaders' who would never enter an IFA soccer ground.
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And this means what exactly??
 
Glenbhoy said:
I liked Ervine from what I saw and knew of him, but the highlighted part of your statement is a tad extreme.
I don't think it is extreme. He was prepared to compromise and see the other side's argument. He came to the 'south' and engaged the people unlike Paisley/others who have been condecending to the south in everything he said/did.

And this means what exactly??
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It means that David Ervine would have been an Irish League Football supporter (just like Cliftonville supporters) and therefore they had more in common than they thought or would accept. Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness would not be soccer supporters like the Cliftonville people who booed.
Booing during the minute silence for a dead man who tried to bring reconsiliation is sickening.
 
The_Banker said:
It means that David Ervine would have been an Irish League Football supporter (just like Cliftonville supporters) and therefore they had more in common than they thought or would accept. Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness would not be soccer supporters like the Cliftonville people who booed.
Booing during the minute silence for a dead man who tried to bring reconsiliation is sickening.
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I agree the booing is sickening, but to try and say that Cliftonville supporters would have more in common with Ervine than with Adams/McGuinness is ridiculous in the extreme.
 
The_Banker said:
What made me so angry was the Cliftonville supporters who booed were just mindless oafs who just hate for the sake of hating. .
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Agree 100%.

The_Banker said:
Instead of recognising that David Ervine had more in common with them than some of there own 'leaders' who would never enter an IFA soccer ground.
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In some respects perhaps, but at least David Ervine was not bigotted , unlike the Cliftonville supporters who booed.
 
Of all places to look for rational, logical or civilised behaviour the football terraces/stands are often the last that you will find it. Often the mob mentality prevails - and it can be a great buzz! Usually it's all simply part of the fun. Sometimes, such as here, it can get ugly and manifest itself in a way that can be offensive to some. I wouldn't blow such an incident out of all proportion or start trying to generalise from it though. Anybody who has been to a football (soccer) match and knows what goes on really should know the score on this front.
 
ClubMan said:
Of all places to look for rational, logical or civilised behaviour the football terraces/stands are often the last that you will find it. Often the mob mentality prevails - and it can be a great buzz! Usually it's all simply part of the fun. Sometimes, such as here, it can get ugly and manifest itself in a way that can be offensive to some. I wouldn't blow such an incident out of all proportion or start trying to generalise from it though. Anybody who has been to a football (soccer) match and knows what goes on really should know the score on this front.
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Exactly. And Northern Ireland soccer is not exactly known for its civilised behaviour. The treatment of Neil Lennon is an example. Was also at the 94 World Cup qualifier in Windsor Park and I have never seen such naked hatred in a football ground before and I have also sat through a Celtic Rangers and Roma Lazio game and these didn't compare. But it wasn't exactly unexpected. I think the tributes paid to David Ervine by people across the political divide is the true reflection of what people think rather than a few morans on a football terrace.
 
THE SUPPORTERS of a football club are getting a "tribal buzz" out of supporting their side and portraying the opposition as demons.The problem with having a minutes silence before this type of match is that it is very tempting for a few idiots to break the silence and of course lots more join in.I wouldn`t read too much into it.....in the cold light of day people will realise that ervine overcame the tribal mindset he was born into and embraced the peace process.
Any one remember the jeering that billy morgan got from the kerry supporters, when his worried face appeared on the big screen during the a.i.semi final .
 
Not very pleasant but hardly a big surprise. Can't imagine there would even be an attempt to have a minutes silence in Windsor Park if Gerry Adams or Martin McGuinness were to pass away.
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going to surprise some on this one. Dundalk Football Club and Linfield Football Club have been running a joint youth program for the past number of years called Dunfield. if you go into www.linfieldfc.com and go into club info and then into football in the community you will see that 2 junior clubs from Dundalk taking part in their community program.
mentioned here [broken link removed]. course it wont stop biggoted fans from venting their venom. unfortunately.
 
Just heard that Gerry Adams attended the David Ervine funeral. That was a big step towards reconsiliation. Gerry Adams should be appaulded for this. For a lasting peace in the North, mindsets have to change and this was a very big step. Unthinkable a few years back.
 
Has anyone here lived their lives in North Belfast, been discriminated against because of their religion/ethnicity, had members of their family killed for same or had to grow up in a war zone? Hmm, didn't think so. There remains a massive divide in Northern Ireland that comes out on such occasions, but it's no different than (as rightly stated) Rovers and Pats/Bohs/Shls (well, anyone who face Rovers), and certainly no worse than here where 3 years ago a group of Dinamo fans pulled out of a police and military protected convoy for a pitstop on the road side and were hammered senseless and their car burned out, on a main road! The media actually laughed about it and said it's just part of the game.

David Ervine was always able to deliver tongue in cheek lines, esp when jesting with SF or others from the Republican side. He did come in from the cold (as did Mr. Paisley- who led the animals at Burnt Tallot before finding that it might wel be possible to share a country) and was honest and embracing, but like the Alliance, he lost out when politics went to the extremes.
 
I was disappointed at the booeing that went on but certainly not surprised. In fact I would have been more surprised if the terraces were silent. Its a way of life on a lot of terraces and while it is right to condemn all acts of disrespect I didnt see or hear of anyone condemning the BBC who broadcast the incident.

Given the delicate state of the peace process the media should be more careful with their coverage of incidents such as this as it only inflames and incites others to attempt some form of retribution
 
almo said:
and certainly no worse than here where 3 years ago a group of Dinamo fans pulled out of a police and military protected convoy for a pitstop on the road side and were hammered senseless and their car burned out, on a main road! The media actually laughed about it and said it's just part of the game.
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Where is "here" in this case? :eek:

nutty nut said:
Given the delicate state of the peace process the media should be more careful with their coverage of incidents such as this as it only inflames and incites others to attempt some form of retribution
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I don't agree that the media should self censor in deference to other issues that may be ongoing in the wider community. Of course, whether or not the incident in question was newsworthy on a wider scale in the first place is another issue altogether.
 
The_Banker said:
Just heard that Gerry Adams attended the David Ervine funeral. That was a big step towards reconsiliation. Gerry Adams should be appaulded for this. For a lasting peace in the North, mindsets have to change and this was a very big step. Unthinkable a few years back.
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I agree. Another big step would be if SF/IRA could finally pinpoint where they ditched the bodies of the various people that they "disappeared" over the years.
 
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