Citizens arrest but to no avail.

D

daltonr

Guest
I managed to aprehend a couple of guys who smashed my car windscreen tonight, but to no avail. I posted it on a blog rather than take up AAM space if anyone is interested (It's a tad long).

[broken link removed]

Valuable lessons learned though.

-Rd
 
Hi

Vey interesting read, but equally a complete shame you or anyone else in this country have to put up with such shameful threatment from either (A) a bunch of drunken thugs or (B) our very own Gardai

Its time we had an Internal Affairs divison in the Gardai to help deal with the useless Gardai that walk out streets (assuming they have got up off their fat a$$es)

I'm not saying all Gardai are bad, infact quite the opposite I think most are very good. I appreciate they have a very difficult job to do & one that takes great courage ... but if they don't want to do that job, they should not collect the pay check or wear the uniform.

Having read the story of the above experience, kinda helps explain why more & more people are now taking the law into their own hands rather than rely on the Gardai.

....A speeding car late at night having knocked down the drunken scumbag who broke that window, would have been hard to trace, identify etc some might think !

I really hope your taking this further with written complaints to the Gardai & your local politicans DaltonR, your the innocent party here & ending up not just a victum, but a somewhat worried one at that. This situation is just not good enough imho !

Regards

G>
 
Garrettod,

The temptation to "Deal with" these situations in future is definitely there. But I don't think I'll go that road, although I'll also be very reluctact to bother pursuing and detaining people. Why put yourself at risk so that the Gardai can show up and let them go?

To some extent I buy the "Our Hands are Tied" story, but I don't fully accept it. I got a very definite sense of an unwillingless tpo investigate this case. I'm not professional but I managed to find out the name of the guy, where he's from and this morning I managed to find foot prints where he jumped on the bonnet to kick the windscreen.

I also managed to find 2 other vehicles on the road also attacked in the same way with foot prints on the bonnets.

I really wouldn't mind so much if these guys got off in court on a technicality, at least the farce of the situation would be on public display. But it galls me that investigations don't even proceed beyond taking names. This wasn't an accidental car accident, it was an attack by people who can be tied to the crime.

We've had calls in for 5 hours today to get the gardai back to look at the other cars (that they didn't even notice last night) and to look at the foot prints. Still no sign.

I can't even get a Garda to tell me if the guy who escaped last night was ever recaptured.

-Rd
 
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Report The crime, otherwise it never happened and the lazy cops come under no pressure to do their jobs , the cops will often try not to let your report the crime but This post will be deleted if not edited immediately them.

Get the crime report reference number too before you leave in case it is deleted off that computer system of theirs .
 
Very good at what exactly?
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The majority of Gardai I've dealt with are fine. You get the odd asshole on a power trip and they really annoy me far more than any of the Gardai I dealt with in relation to the issue above.

The latest news is that 3 people were arrested last night, a Garda was assaulted by one of the youths I followed. In all probability nothing will ever happen directly related to my car, but those involved will probably be charged with other offenses.

I don't really have a problem with the individual Gardai that dealt with me last night. My problem is more of an overall one. There's ONE car for the entire area covered by the Rathfarnam station. ONE.

I really don't blame Gardai who knowing in their heart that they won't get a conviction choose to cut short investigations that will lead nowhere and get back on the road to break up fights etc.

I blame the system that after 10 to 15 YEARS of unprecedented boom has ONE car for and area of this size with the population that now exists. Are they under teh impression that no houses have been built in Firhouse in the last 10 years?

To put it bluntly I do'nt believe the Hands Are Tied excuse. I believe that there was enough evidence to charge these guys last night, but the gardai knowing in thir hearts that the guys would probably walk chose not to.

In an ideal world I'd like to gardai to catch the people they know are responsible and let the courts handle the prosecutions.

As I said to the Gardai this evening, damaging a car is now effectively legal, since those who do it know that even if they are caught they won't be prosecuted much less convicted.

-Rd
 
daltonr

I sympathise with you regarding what happened in your blog, however, I have to agree with the Gardai on this occasion.

What happens if there are 4 people acting the maggot and breaking the law on the way home from the pub and the gardai are called. What if they are going past a person on the path with no connection to them when the Gardai arrive. In all probability, he will be arrested and charged with their behaviour. I remember something similar happened to an acquaintance of mine over 25 years ago. As far as I remember at the time he was taken in and charged with whatever criminal acts the others had earlier engaged in.

On your other point of Garda manpower and deployment, I also remember an article in the Sunday Tribune years ago which listed the deployment of Gardai long after the troubles had ceased to be a major treat. There were more Gardai based in Blacklion in Co Cavan, which has a tiny population, than was based in Ballymun at that time.

Given what you have said about the number of Gardai on duty in Rathfarnham I feel that it highly probable, that there are still a huge number of Gardai on a cushy number on the Border. If this were not the case then I'm sure we would have heard from the GRA by now about how their members were being (de)decentralised up to Dublin which as we are all aware flies in the face of current government policy.


Murt
 
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daltonr said:
My problem is more of an overall one. There's ONE car for the entire area covered by the Rathfarnam station. ONE.
Click to expand...

Sounds familiar. Weren't the Gardai who were attacked in Raheny during the week actually from the Howth station as the ONE Garda car on duty in Raheny was otherwise engaged?
 
What happens if there are 4 people acting the maggot and breaking the law on the way home from the pub and the gardai are called. What if they are going past a person on the path with no connection to them when the Gardai arrive. In all probability, he will be arrested and charged with their behaviour.
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Murt,

I understand tyhe point you are trying to make, but that's not the situation here. I was not asking for arrests based only on my word. I was asking for a bit of investigation.

had the Gardai detained the guys at the scene and ten taken a look at the cars that had been vandalised they would have found very clear foot prints on the bonnets of the cars. One of the cars had 3 different sets of foot prints.

I'll bet you all the money in my bank account (About €160 less than I had thanks to this incident) that the foot prints would have matched the shoes that the guys were wearing.

All I ask is that crimes be investigated before a decision not to arrest is made.

The Gardai are so under resourced right now that the are operating permanently in Crisis Mode. They only came to the scene when they heard we were confronting the guys.

Their intention was clearly to take names, make sure there were no injuries then get on with breaking up the next fight. They do'nt have time for all that hanging around investigating, making arrests etc.

They only made any arrests at all because the guys were too stupid to leave when they had the all clear on the windscreen breaking, they continued being aggressive and eventually assaulted a garda.

The family down the road who's car was also attacked spent all day yesterday at home waiting for Gardai to arrive to look at their car.
About 10 hours under effective house arrest on a beautiful summers day.
The gardai finally arrived last night.

I gave up ringing and had to go to Rathfarnam to ask about how I complain to the Garda Complaints Board before I eventually got gardai to come and look at the foot prints on my car.

I know in my heart that the prints taken will never form any part of an investigation or prosecution, it was done to make me happy, and hopefully head off a complaint.

I don't blame the gardai entirely. It is not acceptable that they have to function permanently in crisis mode. Our gardai operate in the way I would expect them top work in the middle of a terrorist attack.
No time to deal with your situation, nobody was hurt, keep the chin up.

Right now all I want is some sort of official acknowledgement from the state that these crimes don't get investigated beyond taking names due to a shortage of resources.

-Rd
 
umop3p!sdn said:
Very good at what exactly?
Click to expand...


Hi

Are good at their jobs ...

lets face it, are you brave enough to walk the streets late at night, tackle a bank robber without a gun or something equally as leathal in your hand etc ... I'm certainly not.

Like others here, I:

- despise those silly fool cops that are on power trips & insist on making life for the honest people so difficult. A recent example which comes to mind was a Gardai check point down towards East Wall recently, where there were lets of Gardai including some plain closed guys (think I saw a gun, but might be wrong) ... they were clearly looking for someone in particular, but when the Gardai were stopping traffic, they could not resist the temptation to tell me I needed to renew my roadtax that month :rolleyes: :mad:

- hate the fact that it tends to be the innocent, such as daltonR, who end up suffering while the thugs get away with lots of crimes etc. This kinda failure by the Gardai resulted in mods previously taking the law into their own hands & will, in time, again me thinks.

- really cannot accept the lack of available Gardai when there is a problem at night time & they are called out, yet there seems to be no end of them when there is overtime going at Xmas or a match on in Landsdown etc

Would AskAboutMoney start a campaign to be supported by its members - asking about the state money spent on the Gardai & where it's going perhaps ? :)

Cheers

G>
 
On your other point of Garda manpower and deployment, I also remember an article in the Sunday Tribune years ago which listed the deployment of Gardai long after the troubles had ceased to be a major treat. There were more Gardai based in Blacklion in Co Cavan, which has a tiny population, than was based in Ballymun at that time.
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Murt, sorry to break the news to you that this particular story was exposed as a myth at least a couple of years ago. Fine and all a paper as the Tribune is, don't believe everything you read in it as they are as capable of making mistakes as the rest of us.
 
Would AskAboutMoney start a campaign to be supported by its members - asking about the state money spent on the Gardai & where it's going perhaps?
Click to expand...

You wouldn't get a straight answer regardless of how much support your campaign got.

I've spent the last few days thinking about crime etc. and I have a few suggestions. Some of them are a bit extreme, but I'd be amazed if any of them failed to receive 50% support.

1. I don't agree with FG's proposal to force property owners to repair damage caused by vandals within a certain period. Are we to criminalise victims of crime? How about catching people committing public order offences and make them clean up. You won't necessarily get the guy who spray painted your wall back to clean it, but there's a better chance that he's cleaning up someones wall.

2. Anyone with more than 20 convictions in the past 3 years (many kids of 50 and 60 convictions) should be docked 50% of their social welfare. That money should go into fighting crime in their communities. If they work they should lose 100% of their tax credits and should be fined.

3. There should be some way to compensate victims whose crimes are not even investigated. I don't know how this would work.

4. (Getting Extreme Now). We should look into the possibility of purchasing prison spaces in other countries. E.g. In return for taking 2000 scumbags off our hands for a year or two, We offer to take in 4000 immigrants, and we offer to pay €10,000 per scumbag for their upkeep.
It'd be cheaper than keeping them in prison here, and I reckon a stint in a third world jail might be more of a deterrant.

5. I agree with Fine Gael's ideas on community policing, short circuiting the courts, and forcing the criminals to pay restitution.

6. Fianna Fail should be asked why they completely ignored "Zero Tolerance" when they won the election before last. We know the answer, it was an election lie, but we need to hear that from them.

Just some thoughts.

-Rd
 
lets face it, are you brave enough to walk the streets late at night,

Erm... Why would I have to be 'brave enough to walk the streets' if the gardai were doing their jobs? Surely I should have no fear? You've contradicted yourself.

tackle a bank robber without a gun or something equally as leathal in your hand etc

This isn't bravery, it's stupidity.
 
Hi Garrett,

Garrettod said:
Would AskAboutMoney start a campaign to be supported by its members - asking about the state money spent on the Gardai & where it's going perhaps ?
Click to expand...

In fairness to the Gardai, a lot of the good work that they do is unpleasant behind-the-scenes work that frankly no-one else (with the possible exception of the clergy) would do on an ongoing basis. For example attendance at the scene of every road fatality, every suicide, every drowning, every murder or manslaughter. Recovering bodies in every such scenario. Breaking life-shattering news to bereaved relatives and later comforting the bereaved. Conducting investigations into traumatic events. Assembling files on the circumstances surrounding suicides etc and presenting them in front of relatives at inquests. The list goes on...

Garrettod said:
really cannot accept the lack of available Gardai when there is a problem at night time & they are called out, yet there seems to be no end of them when there is overtime going at Xmas or a match on in Landsdown etc
Click to expand...

Garrett, you hardly want to go back to the situation we had 15 or 20 years ago where drunken drivers could do what they like in the festive season with little or no fear of prosecution because Gardai were not manning the roads, or where the lack of proper policing at major public events such as matches left people in genuine danger of death or serious injury such as happened in Heysel, Hillsborough etc?
 
It might be better to get away from the minutae of what the Gardai do with their time and focus on the real problem here. There aren't enough of them.

Even if you never police a concert, never set up a speed check and never attend a road traffic accident, the number of cars on duty at the weekend in Dublin just isn't enough. There's no way around that fact.

If we were a poor country with massive unemployment I'd accept that the state would have a hard time policing. Lots of idle youths and very little tax revenue to police them with. But that isn't the case.

How far would the 10's of millions squandered each year go towards policing? 50m here, 100m there. I know that extra police has an ongoing cost above and beyond that initial capital costs, and it's not fair to equate once off wastage like E-Voting with an ongoing need like policing or health.

But the current government have managed to waste money on such a regular basis and in such enormous quantities that it is appropriate to start asking these questions.

Bah! Why bother.

-Rd
 
Whilst attending my weekend golf I noticed a Garda car and one chappie strolling around the clubhouse, when I enquired why he was there, I was told that the FBI director had popped in for a game and needed 'security'!
 
I was told that the FBI director had popped in for a game and needed 'security'!
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1. Would anyone know the FBI Director from Adam?

2. Is anyone who does know that FBI Director and wants to take him out going to
be stopped by a Garda.

3. Is there any chance that while the Gardai are being diverted to protect him he
could send a few FBI Agents to do the Garda's job. Or better still get the FBI to
protect him themselves.

4. The Garda obviously wasn't very good at his job if a casual question was all it took
to confirm that the FBI director was in the area.


One of the reasons we don't get progress on policing and health etc, etc. Is that the people we've put in charge of making progress are completely detached from the actual problems.

I suspect that on any given night Michael McDowell has more garda protection specifically for himself and his family than the whole of the rest of his constituency combined.

-Rd
 
Hi Rd, ref your point about buying prison space in other countries; there are loads of spaces and highly trained prison guards in Northern Ireland. I suggested to a politician in south Dublin a few years back that it would be an excellent use for the Maze prison. He didn't seem to agree at the time.
 
Which politician did you suggest it to, or which party?

Personally I think the Maze might be a little too comfortable for the kind of treatment I think is needed.

We keep hearing about jobs being outsourced to low cost economies.
I really think outsourcing our criminals to India, China, or other low cost economies might be the way to go. I'm pretty sure they'll "Look After" our boys for a lot less money than it would cost to keep them in prison at home.

Obviously it would be harsh on families, but if you don't want to get sent to India, don't get 50 convictions. If we can purchase medical treatment abroad why can't we purchase justice abroad too?

In Argentina convicts end up working on Fish Farms. Since we recently sent a Junket to that part of the world perhaps we should get a payoff. A couple of months hard work would do some of these guys the world of good.

-Rd
 
Forget about sending these criminals abroad, just shoot them on the spot. They are a drain on our society. After the first 100, let's see what the crime figures are like.

We need a cull I think.
 
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