Political waffle? Indeed.
Change Name when emigrating to avoid creditors
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Gerry Canning
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Some contributors are sure that people should pay their Debts to Banks.
I am not so sure that people should honour bank debts when it is obvious there is not a genuine repayment capacity , as per gones situation.
1. Banks came into Ire to milk profit , and that is fair enough.
2. Between them all Banks greedily and willingly participated in a property bubble.
3. When things blew up , Banks want all the money they advanced back.
a. Most businesses that are owed money will readily accept much less than the 100% the Banks want back.
b. Why should Irish people repay these largely foreign banks 100% of 100%?
Remember by Irish people taking hit on bondholder types we have already protected these foreign entities.
c. These Banks will now sell their books at circa 30% to vulture funds , secure in the knowledge Mr Irish Taxpayer has already taken the sting out of their losses.
Gone , Seems to have accepted that after 6 years he is going nowhere with this and that Mr Bank will not let there be closure.
Also a lot of the Banks are foreign owned eg Boi,Ulster , Danske,Bos , Start , Ge.
So in a (weird) sense by not paying them we preserve funds in Ire and hit the (bondholders).
From a practical viewpoint, it is unfair to keep dangling debts over people for 6 years +.
I am not advocating blanket non payment , it is just the anomalies are obvious.
I am not so sure that people should honour bank debts when it is obvious there is not a genuine repayment capacity , as per gones situation.
1. Banks came into Ire to milk profit , and that is fair enough.
2. Between them all Banks greedily and willingly participated in a property bubble.
3. When things blew up , Banks want all the money they advanced back.
a. Most businesses that are owed money will readily accept much less than the 100% the Banks want back.
b. Why should Irish people repay these largely foreign banks 100% of 100%?
Remember by Irish people taking hit on bondholder types we have already protected these foreign entities.
c. These Banks will now sell their books at circa 30% to vulture funds , secure in the knowledge Mr Irish Taxpayer has already taken the sting out of their losses.
Gone , Seems to have accepted that after 6 years he is going nowhere with this and that Mr Bank will not let there be closure.
Also a lot of the Banks are foreign owned eg Boi,Ulster , Danske,Bos , Start , Ge.
So in a (weird) sense by not paying them we preserve funds in Ire and hit the (bondholders).
From a practical viewpoint, it is unfair to keep dangling debts over people for 6 years +.
I am not advocating blanket non payment , it is just the anomalies are obvious.
Agreed, should probably talk to the banks or the politicians about that.
Is your house in a good rental location and if so would you consider renting it out?
You sound young so don't burn your bridges before you leave, I reckon you may want to come back to this country one day with a wife and plans to bring up your kids in Ireland, its the dream of many emigrants afterall.
You sound young so don't burn your bridges before you leave, I reckon you may want to come back to this country one day with a wife and plans to bring up your kids in Ireland, its the dream of many emigrants afterall.
It's an average rental location, with current rents I would still be quite a bit away from meeting the mortgage repayments but when this rental bubble pops in 2 or 3 years I'll be considerably further away again
I envisage myself starting to earn decent money again in Canada in approx 5+ years but there are a lot of moving parts to my plans and success is not guaranteed. If the bank was willing to come some of the way to meet me in sharing the burden of this catastrophe I would probably risk keeping the house but they won't budge. Bridges have to be burnt, there's no other way as far as I can see.
This whole thing is in a bit of a mess but nothing that cant be sorted. I live in an average sized town and the rents have stayed static over the last 5 to 6 years and will do for the foreseebale future. People will always need places to rent.
If you considered letting out the house, do you think the bank would restructure your mortgage, longer term etc? Once you settled in Canada you could make arrangements to start sending some money home to make up the short fall. who knows in 12 to 18 months time, there may be a significant increase in the value of your property.
If you considered letting out the house, do you think the bank would restructure your mortgage, longer term etc? Once you settled in Canada you could make arrangements to start sending some money home to make up the short fall. who knows in 12 to 18 months time, there may be a significant increase in the value of your property.
The idea of him renting is off the wall, in my opinion.
Firstly the rent doesn't even cover the mortgage. Then with all the other costs this will never make sense. He might even owe tax on rental, that's how hard it is to make money as a landlord. And the idea of being able to manage a property from Canada is nigh on impossible.
This poster needs to get on with his life and stop fighting the bank.
A lot of posters seem to be taking issue with the fact he has been paying practically zero to the bank, how can you pay something if you are on the dole ? He would cost more to taxpayers if he also were to receive rent supplment. The bank were quite clearly happy for him to remain in the house. A lot of people don't understand that it has suited the bank in a lot of cases. This is because they didn't want to reposses on a grand scale, they didn't want to flood the market and bring prices even lower, the owner is the best person to look after a property, and the rent receiver racket is not cost effective nor as effective as leaving the owner in situ until prices rise. (this is different where you have a block of apparments etc, where economies of scale make it feasible)
Firstly the rent doesn't even cover the mortgage. Then with all the other costs this will never make sense. He might even owe tax on rental, that's how hard it is to make money as a landlord. And the idea of being able to manage a property from Canada is nigh on impossible.
This poster needs to get on with his life and stop fighting the bank.
A lot of posters seem to be taking issue with the fact he has been paying practically zero to the bank, how can you pay something if you are on the dole ? He would cost more to taxpayers if he also were to receive rent supplment. The bank were quite clearly happy for him to remain in the house. A lot of people don't understand that it has suited the bank in a lot of cases. This is because they didn't want to reposses on a grand scale, they didn't want to flood the market and bring prices even lower, the owner is the best person to look after a property, and the rent receiver racket is not cost effective nor as effective as leaving the owner in situ until prices rise. (this is different where you have a block of apparments etc, where economies of scale make it feasible)
Agree with Bronte as have seen the reality of this with my relative trying to mange his house from Canada. It ended up their parents having constant calls from the agent and they certainly didn't want or were able for the hassle. THey are on the road to a resolution hopefully but it was only when they started plating hardball that the bank engaged.
The most prudent thing to do at this stage would be to contest the repossession in order to drag it out for as long as possible in the hope that any residual debt from sale might shrink as it (house) appreciates in the meantime no? If I got a definite answer that the banks won't come after me in 10 years time then I would certainly hand over the keys in the morning. I've gotten pretty definite answers that I'm grateful for but nothing set in stone and we are potentially talking hundreds of thousands at stake here. It's a tough call from my end, everything I hope to own could be taken off me in 10 years time if I make the wrong call,maybe I should just listen to the posters that gave me what appears to be sound advice.
You seem to be looking for too much here without offering anything. IF your current financial circumstances are such that you have no ability to make any reasonable payments to this loan then do as Gerry Canning suggests. Write to the Bank enclosing a Statement of Affairs, Income/expenditure statement and copy bank statements. tell them you intend to emigrate in the short term and offer to voluntarily assist in a handover of the property to them in return for a full and final settlement of the balance outstanding. If they refuse then you can do no more. As for making your fortune in Canada, this may well be feasible and as I said previously the chances of Boi/ICS tracing you and taking legal action against you there are negligible. Also remember that the statute of limitations on a debt is 6 years. If you return home a millionaire in 7 years time and find it splashed all over the newspapers the Bank can take no action against you!
I know I'm asking a lot and giving little info, apologies, am scared that the banks may be perusing these pages and the wrong little bit of info could probably identify me, Ireland is tiny in this respect imo.
I have made the offer you suggested and they blanked me so I have only 2 options now, immediate voluntary surrender or contested repossession in the hope that the gaff will appreciate in the meantime making my debt even smaller.
Surely the later is more prudent, I mean it will cost me nothing more than voluntary surrender and if (I accept it's a big paranoid if) a law changes or something happens that makes the banks able to chase me 5 years down the line then the bill they hand me will be a few quid less?
I mean negligible isn't quite absolute and it costs me nothing to protect myself in the eventuality that negligible changes into reality over the next 5 years. Maybe I'm seeking to much certainty when it simply can't be given.
Again thanks for your advice, I will end up taking it, I just want to try and get as much certainty as I can before I do.
If it happens that you drag out repossession proceedings for years (which i'm sure you could do easily) and by the time the bank repossesses the house it has risen in value such that the negative equity is turned into positive equity, you do realise that the costs of the years of legal fees will also fall on you and that the bank may decide to pursue you just for revenge?
Even if the law changes to make mortgage debt non-recourse (very much doubt any such change could be applied to existing mortgage contracts anyway) it probably wouldn't extend to the legal fees you would then owe the bank.
Thanks for input, the bank's legal firm has suggested liability for legal fee's of approx 3k should I contest it.
How long do you think it might be possible to drag it out for?
Oh I thought I was looking at approx 14 + months so another say, 40%
http://www.independent.ie/business/...es-rise-by-a-third-in-12-months-30640720.html
I would not take the €3k as the maximum legal fees that they might follow you for. It would all depend on the length of time in court and court appearances that might take place. You will find that you will be caught for Auctioneers and Legal fees for the sale of it and there might be costs for a receiver.
I am just point out these costs so as that you might consider them when doing you figures.
I genuinely wish you good luck with all of this and try and not ruin your health and life with the stress of all of this. I have a friend in a similar situation as yourself with the same Bank as you and I know what he is and has being going through.
He is slowly adjusting to the situation with the help of lifelong friends. It is all he has.
Best of luck
I am just point out these costs so as that you might consider them when doing you figures.
I genuinely wish you good luck with all of this and try and not ruin your health and life with the stress of all of this. I have a friend in a similar situation as yourself with the same Bank as you and I know what he is and has being going through.
He is slowly adjusting to the situation with the help of lifelong friends. It is all he has.
Best of luck
Um thanks I guess.