Capitalism . . . Is it a failure, or is this just a blip!

Did the Caliphate as you describe it ever truly exist? How can any “perfect system” ever work when it does not take human frailty into account? If a perfect system requires that vast numbers of people be subjugated and forced into a pattern of behaviour which they find undesirable then such a system is just another form of fascism.

Please don’t take my comments as an attack on Islam; I am simply arguing the general point.

As a general rule, it appears that the standard of living of people in countries which call themselves islamic is lower than comparative countries which do not. It also appears that once a non-islamic country becomes islamic, it's standard of living dramatically decreases. The evidence would suggest that democratic capitalists countries have much better standards of living. Even severe depressions in capitalist democracies appear to be much better than self professed thriving islamic countries. Even communist states seem to out perform islamic states - and thats says a lot!!!!

You keep quoting Sir Thomas Arnold, a man who spent his life in India, exposed to the remnants of the pluralistic Islam which had been practiced under Mogul rule (before the British destroyed it and arguable created modern Islamic fundamentalism). That’s a far cry from the Islam we see in some Middle Eastern countries in the 21 century.
The crux of the matter is that any economic system which is part of an overarching totalitarian system of societal control will limit the chances of excess but the human cost is, in my view, far too high. The corresponding stifling of creativity and individuality will also limit economic and social development so that while there may be fewer lows there will be far fewer highs.

This thread has been heavily edited. The last page or so now make little sense.

dockingtrade said:

i think the big problem is the business model that demands quarter on quarter, year on year profit growth. If a corp make 1Billion profit it's like how on earth are we going to make 1Billion plus 10% next year. what's wrong with making 1billion the next or 900M??? I dont think im being nieve here beacuse look what happened the banks. They exhausted markets, now how do we keep growing they created false markets 100% mortgages, relaxing the requirements, lend to people who have bad credit ratings all because they had maximized profits and had to become unethical just so they could grow. there has to be value in a company that makes a profit and employs x amount of people. Not we need to cut so we can increase 1 billion to 1 billion +, what happens the year after next. Go to low cost economies and sell back into markets where the jobs are being lost?? Eventually they're going to kill the demand for their own products. (Im talking about companies making billions)

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This is the core of the problem. Greater risks taken and new high-risk investment products and strategies developed to keep profits artificially inflated. Sooner or later these products and strategies trigger a cascade that leads from sensible growth/management to systematic boom/bust.

Capitalism is inherently problematic and too many senior decision makers are isolated from the consequences of their actions. Any action by Governments and world economic policy bodies MUST focus on consequences in the wider society or we will simply be trapped in alternating boom/bust cycles with the booms directly creating the causes of the next bust. This may seem obvious and it is. Therefore why hasn't anyone learned form it. Because enough people always make enough wealth to be protected from the worst consequences of their own actions and retire to play golf.

Have any of the nation's bankers been forced to make restitution for their appalling mis-management? Gillian Bowler is still at I.L.&P. despite clearly having made very poor decisions. Have senior figures in the public service and regulation industry been held accountable for corruption and failure to regulate? No consequences means there will be no change and we will be facing another crisis in several years time, even if we get out of this crisis in reasonable shape. The whole Capitalist system has become so crazily complex that the fundamental issues at play can barely be grasped.

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries".

Winston Churchill

I think he sums it up just nicely.