Cape Verde

[auto320]

It seems to me that nobody had heard of Cape Verde until Eddie Hobbs started to promote it. Does anyone know the exact relationship between Mr Hobbs and the developer whose projects he has been hyping?
As a retired member of the property profession (who still makes a nice living from occasional overseas and UK property investing) I can only wonder at the willingness of irish "investors" to jump on any bandwagon that is promoted by people with a high media profile. Sure if Eddie says its brilliant, it has to be brilliant.
I am just surprised that none of my former clients, most of whom are big players, have even considered putting money into Cape Verde. Have they not been listening to Eddie?
I'm keeping my money in my pocket on this one!

 

[extopia]

I think the Cape was being discussed (mainly in the negative) here on AAM even before the Hobbs connection.

 

[Ancutza]

To be fair, auto, there doesn't seem to be much you're NOT keeping your money in your pocket on!!

 

[extopia]

So an experienced property investor is keeping his money in his pocket at the moment. Surely something to learn there!

 

[auto320]

Not so, I merely give the benefit of my experience in respect of the extensive amount of junk property out there.
In the absence of a future in the speculative market in Ireland in the short to medium term, it is obvious that the only way is overseas for irish investors. As long as they avoid the rubbish, they can do ok, but I certainly classify the majority of the Cape Verde developments as having no value from an investor's point of view. If you want a holiday home in Cape Verde, then that is of course a different matter.
I do have a problem with many companies that market property in a dishonest manner, be it either with talk of guaranteed rentals, false projections as to capital gains, etc etc. Much of what is marketed in Turkey, Bulgaria, and other such locations has no investment value whatsoever, and will put a buyer into a lossmaking situation as soon as the ink is dry on the contract.
It is possible to make money in any market; there is opportunity almost anywhere you look if you have the experience, the skills and the capital. Most small investors however rely on salesmen to advise them, and take as gospel what they are told by such vested interests. When was the last time you saw the truth about any of this in the property pages of any newspaper for instance? The advertiser is king in these papers, and the puffing of what are often useless developments in the pages of the national broadsheets often approaches the realms of utter fantasy.
Where to buy with small budgets? Land along certain parts of the Black Sea in Romania is good if you are sure of it's heritage, and there is an almost immediate margin here if you have the ability to arrange to build high-end houses or apartments close to the beaches, particularly in Mamia and Eforie. Budapest still offers good value in districts 6/7/13 and sellers are easier to talk to than heretofore - genuine returns of 6% and above are easily achieved on rentals here if you have access to good management. Parts of Spain and Portugal are very good if you want an easily accessible holiday home with some growth potential (forget rentals). German cities in the west of the country can provide some nice pickings. The UK still has some interesting options, and the currency situation vis a vis the euro is very stable of late; I could go on! Just stay out of Bulgaria and Turkey (and Cape Verde) for heavens sake!

 

[Guest127]

interested in your comments on turkey auto. am looking at purchasing an apartment in alanya in turkey. dont intend to lease it out. family use only. know that it won't grow much in value but ( E/As of course claim the turkey appreciated by approx 40 % in the past two years and expect 25% in each of the next three but I personally dont believe that). and of course if I wanted to resell it mightn't be so easy, but then again my enquiries so far have shown that properties in alanya sell pretty quickly particularly to Danish/German/Finnish and Scandanavian in general . looking from somewhere warm for old bones for the winters ahead and while portugal/spain fit the bill they are expensive and in portugals case the .08% tax is a bit rough on a property you are not renting out. so even if I found a 1 bedroom apt I liked in Portugal for say €120,000 I would have to pay €1000 tax each year, not counting maintainance. turkey on a property of €100,000 (2 beds fully furnished, Irish builder) has a tax of €100. flights of course are another matter but not that much more expensive overall if you plan ahead. are you of the opinion the turkish market will collapse in the next few years? know they have a lot of building going on at the moment but they also have a very young population ( think over 50% are under 25)

 

[auto320]

Personally, I wouldn't touch Turkey with the proverbial barge pole, but then I never buy without taking investment value into account. A lot of Turkish property was hyped to a multiple of local value in the last couple of years on the back of EU accession and the so called "rental guarantees", and the only way for most of it is down. The EU accession is now farther off than ever, and every move this government makes seems to put it at odds with the European Commission, so don't hold your breath there.
If I wanted a holiday home in a warm climate (already sorted in that regard, but for the purposes of this exercise) and I was concerned about ongoing costs, I would buy a rural Spanish property where taxes are miniscule and you don't have to pay exhorbitant community fees. Taxes on country houses in parts of Granada province (Alpujarras region in particular) can be less than 100 euro per annum, with obviously no community fees. You can buy well around there for about 100K or less too. Most of these properties are not marketed in Ireland (except by small specialist operators) largely because there is no money in selling them -- it is easier for the bigger outfits to sell big urbanisations, and the commissions are better too!
The other attraction for me about Spain or Portugal is that I can decide today to go tomorrow, with direct flights and no epic journeys through Heathrow!
Apologies to the board if this topic has drifted off topic!

 

[CCOVICH]

Please discuss Turkey in another thread.

 

[liamwoods]

I'm heading out there soon on an inspection trip. If all goes to plan and I like what I see I'm gonna buy a 2 bed near Santa Maria. Villa Verde maybe, I will have to see whats available. Was out at the Big Spender Expo in the RDS at the weekend. There was a lecture from the guy who does the BBC homes under the hammer show. He rated Cape Verde as number 2 best place to invest in the world, between Brazil and Panama Canal followed by Thailand...

I've also done alot of research besides.

Anyone else actually bought in Sal?

I have shopped around a few agencies:

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]

http://www.macanthonyrealty.com/mri-regions.aspx?CountryCode=CV

although I just read this: MacAnthony

and one more is Ann Collins but I cant find the web address.

Most of these are up on www.daft.ie in the overseas section.

P.S. It's Eddie Hobbs's motives for his comments that are being discussed in a negative way, NOT Cape Verde itself ( or at least it should be)

 

[Humpback]

P.S. It's Eddie Hobbs's motives for his comments that are being discussed in a negative way, NOT Cape Verde itself ( or at least it should be)

Nope. I questioned his motives, and still do.

However, many other posters questioned the sanity of buying property as in investment in a 3rd world country.

You can see these comments here.

In the course of your research, have you found what the policy is with regards to sharing the food aid for the natives amongst the tourists that might arrive there?

What chances, do you think, are there that there might be a return to the nationalisation of companies in Cape Verde, and the confiscation and occupation of private property, as in the 1960's and 1970's?

Slim to none? They've just nationalised the water supplier there now. However, given some of the comments in the thread above, this is probably necessary.

 

[liamwoods]

Nope. I questioned his motives, and still do.

However, many other posters questioned the sanity of buying property as in investment in a 3rd world country.

You can see these comments here.

In the course of your research, have you found what the policy is with regards to sharing the food aid for the natives amongst the tourists that might arrive there?

What chances, do you think, are there that there might be a return to the nationalisation of companies in Cape Verde, and the confiscation and occupation of private property, as in the 1960's and 1970's?

Slim to none? They've just nationalised the water supplier there now. However, given some of the comments in the thread above, this is probably necessary.

Third world my back side.

Share food aid? Where do you get this rubbish from?? (I looked through your links)

In the 60's and 70's these islands were a portugese colony (Independance in 1975). The government is now a parliamentary representative democratic republic.These islands are only starting to get noticed. Do you think they are going to scare off investors and developers by seizing land? 50% of their economy is based on tourism and this is growing. They are attracting investment with tax breaks.

They are building and have built desalinisation stations. What do you mean by nationalisation? What is the relevance of this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Verde

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal,_Cape_Verde

 

[Humpback]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Verde

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal%2C_Cape_Verde

I'm sorry, but can we have something more reliable than Wikipedia to back up your story?

Do you think they are going to scare off investors and developers by seizing land? 50% of their economy is based on tourism and this is growing. They are attracting investment with tax breaks.

Scare off investors? Spain wouldn't have scared off investors in the past. And because of that, people thought there was definitely no chance that [broken link removed]? I mean come on, it's a member of the EU. It would never occupy or take back land from foreign investors.

You don't know what's going to happen in the future - and you have to assess your risks when investing. The possibility of a land grab in Cape Verde must be viewed as a risk when investing. As the man says, done it before, do it again.

Share food aid? Where do you get this rubbish from?? (I looked through your links)

Damn BBC. Can never rely on them for information at all.

Third world my back side.

Apologies, to you and your back side. I should have said (since we're not really supposed to use the term "3rd World" any more) that Cape Verde is listed by the UN as one of the worlds "Least Developed Nations".

[broken link removed].

Cape Verde, number 9 on the list. Higher than Ethiopia, Eritrea, Gambia, Haiti, Liberia and Rwanda.

But hey, it's better off than Afghanistan, Angola, Bangladesh and Cambodia.

Nice place for a holiday home.

 

[Duplex]

What net yield is achievable on a Cape Verde investment? If you cant answer that question before you buy you are not an investor. Its that simple.

 

[liamwoods]

Also it's a predominantly Christian: Catholic country with values akin to the majority of Irish people. I like this fact alot!

15% Capital Appreciation (expected)

3% capital gains in Cape Verde After an initial tax free profit of €30,000
20% in Ireland

 

[hmmm]

3% capital gains in Cape Verde After an initial tax free profit of €30,000
20% in Ireland

You do realise that you will still be paying the 20% in Ireland (on the whole lot)?

I'm completely baffled by your values statement

 

[Humpback]

Also it's a predominantly Christian: Catholic country with values akin to the majority of Irish people. I like this fact alot!

You're avoiding all of the points in my original posts. So, you're buying in a catholic country which is the 9th least developed country?

Do you like this a lot just because of that fact, or does the catholic values of the Cape Verdeans guarantee you some sort of extra return on your money?

But as you say, values akin to Irish people. According to the US State Department, "Petty thievery and burglary are common in Cape Verde", "Muggings occur more often than previously, particularly at night ", "Violent crime is also increasing in Cape Verde", and "domestic abuse against women, including wife beating, is a deep-rooted social problem." And finally, that domain of a certain amount of good catholic Irish people - "The report also mentions that “child abuse and mistreatment, sexual violence against children, and juvenile prostitution were problems” in 2004. "

Sure you might as well invest in Finglas instead. You'll get a 36% capital appreciation on property there in some areas in the last 12 months.

 

[auto320]

There was a lecture from the guy who does the BBC homes under the hammer show. He rated Cape Verde as number 2 best place to invest in the world, between Brazil and Panama Canal followed by Thailand...

Of course your'e right liamwoods, the best advice you will ever get is from a salesman at a property exhibition!

Did he mention that Cape Verde is probably going to get the winter olympics, as soon as Ryanair starts to fly there of course?

 

[liamwoods]

You can twist it anyway you like. The fact is that I'm optimistic about cape verde and I'm seeing the good although I'm aware of the bad.

You are ignoring the good and dwelling on the bad. Say one good thing about Cape Verde, I double-dare you.

I like catholic countries as opposed to muslim countries. ( In regards to where I would buy or live, but that's just me. I'm not even religious)

Fine tan you will get in Finglas. Your mad if you think you will get that kind of return.

The guy giving the presentation was not asking anyone to buy anything.

This is all just my opinion. Not fact at all.

 

[Humpback]

I like catholic countries as opposed to muslim countries. ( In regards to where I would buy or live, but that's just me. I'm not even religious)

Hardly a reason to base an investment decision though, is it? Do catholic countries provide a better return on investment than muslim countries when it comes to property investment?

You are ignoring the good and dwelling on the bad. Say one good thing about Cape Verde, I double-dare you.

We're speaking on a purely investment basis here. And I haven't seen or heard or read anything good at all. You haven't answered any of the questions I've posed above to show me any different, despite your supposed extensive research.

Your mad if you think you will get that kind of return.

Just shows the quality of your research then, doesn't it. Properties purchased in August 2005 for €275,000 have sold this year already for €375,000.

The guy giving the presentation was not asking anyone to buy anything.

You're not seriously that gullible, are you? The guy was presenting at a show that was primarily (only!) aimed at extracting SSIA money from the people visiting. Was it a free show, or did you have to pay at the door?

This is all just my opinion. Not fact at all.

Not the impression you were giving earlier on. Don't you remember, you claimed that Cape Verde wasn't a 3rd World country (or least developed one).

 

[extopia]

15% Capital Appreciation (expected)

According to the seller or developer, I'd imagine. Pure speculation.