can you send the census 2011 forms back directly to the cso ?

This is how it started in several countries; collect as much personal data as possible and then miss-use that data to get rid of the Jews, communists and other groups.

Did you miss out a smilie after this statement?

Why not go the UK route though where the census is contracted to a private company. I mean there are no problems at all that arms manufacturer Lockheed have been awarded the contract is there, I'm sure that decision was all above board.

Though they do seem to have negotiated a humdinger of a deal in that they get paid the same amount no matter how many returns are made. That the get paid the same even though there's a push to fill in online (and therefore cost much less for Lockheed) oh and that given the nature of American anti-terrorism legislation all "information gathered by arms manufacturers" has to be made available to the American Government so that Lockheed may be required to hand over the entire UK census data to the US.

That seems a much better model to me.
 
The data are not linked to your name. Your name is never scanned into the database at all.

Your name is only asked for two reasons. Firstly so that the enumerator knows who they have dealt with, and can check that the form looks consistant. Secondly, so that in 100 year time when the forms are made public, they will make sense to those looking them up.

If the enumerator wants to know who they dealt with it could be on a seperate cover letter that I can keep when the form is collected, it does not need to have my name and date of birth on the same sheet it asks me personal questions that are none of the goverments business.

Your statment that my data is not linked to my name is incorrect, ff you look at the [broken link removed] it clearly shows my name/birthday on the sheet about personal questions.

Your statement that it will never be scanned into the database has no impact at all.

Similar promisse (i.e. it's not linked to your personal data) was made in Germany before they Nazi's came to power and used the census to root out people they did not like. And if the forms are stored any goverment could go back and scan it all in the name of what ever reason they come up with.

The data is not anonymous, it is clearly linked on the form to my personal data. Your claim that is not scanned at this point is not relevant, the goverment at any point could change their minds. And also even if I might be dead in 100 years I still don't want my personal data to be known, it's non of your business if I am a black Jew that spoke 6 languages, had a Ph.D and have an emotional problem.

I have no problems with providing anonymous data but filling out a form that links my personal name/birthday to questions about my health is just outrages.

Stick to the facts, the form asks my name/birthday and it's linked to my personal responses, the excuse of never scanned is just that an excuse, if it's never scanned than it should not be on the form.

When will we learn from the past?
 
When will we learn from the past?
Well clearly we should have destroyed all computers after what the Nazi's did. If IBM hadn't provided them with their newfangled counting machines they wouldn't have been able to have such an efficient holocaust.
 
Well clearly we should have destroyed all computers after what the Nazi's did. If IBM hadn't provided them with their newfangled counting machines they wouldn't have been able to have such an efficient holocaust.

Let me see, I disproof your "it's not linked" by showing you the form where it's linked and you come up with this?

Germany for example stopped one of their census work a while ago because their highest court agreed that the form used could lead to have a person identified and the final form then was done in a way that personal data was seperated so that it could not be used to draw conclusions about a person. They learned from it.

Why can't we do this?

And let's not forget that this census is actualy done for the EU as it's driven by the EU demanded EU wide 2011 Census.
 
Similar promisse (i.e. it's not linked to your personal data) was made in Germany before they Nazi's came to power and used the census to root out people they did not like. And if the forms are stored any goverment could go back and scan it all in the name of what ever reason they come up with.

In all the years of the government running a census here in this current fashion, have you any examples of where the data has been used to engage in a programme of ethnic cleansing, a holocaust, the rooting out of undesirables or even just one example of the government using the data for anything other than a statistics gathering exercise that is used for socio-economic planning?

Please stop using the example of one extreme regime's heinous acts as if it were a fait accompli for every single regime, it's tiresome and hysterical. Though an opportunity to link to xkcd is always welcomed:

http://xkcd.com/261/

Mind, the Doomsday book was also used to instigate and expand an oppressive regime... Enda = William I England? Is the 5 point plan really just the introduction of the feudal system and the working class forced into serfdom? Holy Moly, you may have a point, this is a slippery slope...
 
Let me see, I disproof your "it's not linked" by showing you the form where it's linked and you come up with this?
Well I had started to type up a reasoned argument, but then I realised there was no point as you clearly aren't open to reason.
So I decided to join in and have a hysterical overreaction to a one off event instead.
 
This is how it started in several countries; collect as much personal data as possible and then miss-use that data to get rid of the Jews, communists and other groups.
Congrats on proving Godwins Law. It usually takes more than three pages for a thread to descend into this nonsense.
 
In all the years of the government running a census here in this current fashion, have you any examples of where the data has been used to engage in a programme of ethnic cleansing, a holocaust, the rooting out of undesirables or even just one example of the government using the data for anything other than a statistics gathering exercise that is used for socio-economic planning?

Please stop using the example of one extreme regime's heinous acts as if it were a fait accompli for every single regime, it's tiresome and hysterical. Though an opportunity to link to xkcd is always welcomed:

http://xkcd.com/261/

Mind, the Doomsday book was also used to instigate and expand an oppressive regime... Enda = William I England? Is the 5 point plan really just the introduction of the feudal system and the working class forced into serfdom? Holy Moly, you may have a point, this is a slippery slope...

It's amazing how many people are ignoring the fact that the goverment is collecting massive amount of personal data with the view that our incompetent goverment won't do anything with it because they have not done anything with it in the past.

Now sure comparing our goverment to the Nazi's might be a bid harsch but it still does not address the main point.

The goverment is collecting a massive amount of private data that they on the form link to your personal details. Scan or no scan the form is there linked to your personal data.

Do you really feel that the goverment should have access to your private data (and if you look at the form you see loads of personal data) in this amount?

What would be so bad of separating the names from the questions? It has been done in other countries and they still had a good census?

I'm open to reason and I do not dispute that the goverment needs good data to be able to plan, but again why does it need to be linked to my personal data?

You might feel happy about the goverment hoarding this data and that is fine, but I don't.

But from the looks of it I'm in the minority and it's all irrational fear in my head.
 
You might feel happy about the goverment hoarding this data and that is fine, but I don't.

Nazi regime aside - what do you think they government will really be doing with this data that might impact on you in any negative practical manner?
 
it's all irrational fear in my head.
Now we're getting somewhere :)

I think you're worring too much about this, particularly when you consider all the data held by other gov depts - who actually do store info with your name, address, etc attached directly to the data.
 
You might feel happy about the goverment hoarding this data and that is fine, but I don't.

But from the looks of it I'm in the minority and it's all irrational fear in my head.

That's not really what I'm saying at all, I'm taking objection to the absurd comparissons of this census and the personal data to Nazi war crimes.

I've looked at the forms and there's nothing there that overly worries me other than the effort of filling it in. I don't really see anything that could be misused by the Government. Other than if they chose to start "cleansing" the country of people who commute to work by car they'll know who you are, but I'll be safe given use of cycle.
 
It's amazing how many people are ignoring the fact that the goverment is collecting massive amount of personal data with the view that our incompetent goverment won't do anything with it because they have not done anything with it in the past.

.

That conclusion was reached quickly!
 
I don't really see anything that could be misused by the Government. Other than if they chose to start "cleansing" the country of people who commute to work by car they'll know who you are, but I'll be safe given use of cycle.

How do you know it's not the cyclists they're after... :p
 
I came across this on boards.ie and it appears the poster came across it on another site (not named) but:

Actually, I was inclined to think that Jakdelad was alittle off his rocker until I read on another board that a CACI UK is a census contractor and a subsidary of an AMerican company, CACI International.

CACI provides intelligence and interrogation staff to the US Military and/or their civilian contractor is Iraq. Most notably they allegedly provided over half of the interrogators in the notorious Abu Ghraib prison.

Legal cases against CACI seem to be in process and it seems that the CSO can't disbar a contractor unless they have a conviction.

I wrote to the CSO office to confirm this and this is their response:


Quote:
Originally Posted by csofieldoffice
The census is a major undertaking for the CSO and contractors have been
employed to assist with specialized parts of the work. For 2011 the
contract for the design and print of the census forms, and the provision
and onsite support of the hardware and software required for the scanning,
capture and coding of the census forms was awarded to CACI UK, which is an
independent subsidiary of CACI International. CACI UK were first awarded
the contract for the processing of the 2002 and 2006 censuses and won the
2011 contract after an open competitive procurement process run under EU
competitive tendering law which applies to all public bodies. Of the
proposals received by the CSO, CACI (UK)’s gave best value for the
taxpayer. EU rules do not allow bidders to be excluded because they are
foreign companies. The census forms were printed by a Dublin printer.

In August 2003, CACI International Inc provided staff to the US Army to
conduct IT and intelligence work in Iraq including interrogation services.
Subsequently, in spring 2004 an allegation was made that a CACI employee
had been involved in the mistreatment of detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison
in Iraq. This allegation was not substantiated by any evidence or proof at
the time it was made, and subsequent investigations by both CACI and the US
government could not confirm it. CACI have stated publicly that they take
this allegation extremely seriously, that they do not condone, tolerate or
endorse any illegal behavior by its employees in any circumstances or at
any time and they have, and always will, hold themselves to the highest
ethical standards.

The Central Statistics Office is fundamentally committed to ethical and
proper conduct in all matters and would never have any dealings with a
company convicted of human rights abuse. EU procurement rules do allow
bidders to be excluded if they have been convicted of certain criminal or
other offences but none of these exclusions applies to CACI (UK) - or
indeed to its US parent. The US parent company strongly denies the
allegations made against it and makes clear its abhorrence of human rights
violations.

Confidentiality is the cornerstone of all work conducted by the CSO. All
information collected in the census is treated as strictly confidential by
the CSO and will be used only for statistical purposes. This
confidentiality is guaranteed by law. Under the Statistics Act 1993 the
Central Statistics Office is prohibited by law from divulging any
individual information to any third party, be it a Government Department or
agency, or a private enterprise. The CSO is the only organisation that
will have access to identifiable census information relating to individuals
or households.

All staff working on the census (HQ, field or contract) have been signed up
as Officers of Statistics. The penalty for any breaches of confidentiality
by staff, permanent or contract, can be as high as €25,000. All are made
fully aware of their legal obligations in this respect.

The CSO is justifiably proud of its unblemished record in protecting the
confidentiality of data. It is one of the CSO's top priorities to maintain
this record.

Every household present in the State on Census night, April 10th, has a
legal obligation to complete a Census form under the Statistics Act 1993
and the Statistics (Census of Population) Order 2010.

Anyone interested in the rest of the thread its this one.
 
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