Can Ireland retain a viable economy should severe climate change happen?

Re: Can Ireland survive climate change?

heinbloed said:
Sorry Purple, your knowledge is not up to date, neither last year nor now. The poles ARE melting and the gulfstream is not cooling down. The Atlantic is actually getting warmer. Maybe you mixed something up?
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Read my post again heinbloed, I never said that the gulf stream is cooling down and I never said that the poles are not melting. I have no idea where you got that from.

The thesis is that as the gulf stream HEATS UP it will move further west into the Atlantic. This means that hotter water hits the Greenland ice cap and SPEEDS UP THE MELT. The resulting cold water will flow down toward northwest Europe in general and Ireland in particular. Since the gulf stream had a heating effect on out climate it is reasonable to expect a dominant cold current to have a cooling effect. Seehttp--news.bbc.co.uk-nol-shared-spl-hi-pop_ups-05-sci_nat_enl_1128609871-img-1.jpg for a map of the global thermohaline circulation system.

Maybe if you had actually read my posts last year it would have helped then as well…
 
Re: Can Ireland survive climate change?

heinbloed said:
As far as I understood the recent news we are living in the hottest phase since a few hundred thousand years. So no "ups and downs", not for mankind.
That the last miniature ice age was not created by men is a sugesstion, not a proofen fact. With fire man has destroyed more than cities and nations. Burning down (logging) an area of the size of Europe can easyly create a climate change.We have seen it in Indonesia recently and on a smaller scale.
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An area of Amazonian forest the size of Ireland is burnt down every week of the year for the past 20 years for McDonalds cheap, cheap burgers.........which in fact are literally costing the earth! Those who recommend we all relax, there has "always been climate change" clearly have little sense of the change in timescale involved. Of course there has been climate change caused by geological and atmospheric activity but these occurred over very large timespans not within the space of a century or a decade.
 
Sorry, Purple, sorry.I read your post but did propably not understand it, opened my gob and "answered". Mea culpa!
You where asking where I got the information from.Regarding to Bush's plans and the figures behind him I was using common sense and experience with several salvation organisations like the one mentioned.The last nobel price winner for literature ( Mr. Pinter) gave a remarkable speach at the occasion, per video due to illness. But not relating to Scientology, my conclusion is of a wider view.
About the various factors concerning the rising sea level: Most openly financed studies lack the overall view. 1995 the ipcc (at [broken link removed] ) predicted a rise of 1cm (best case)-3.5 cm(worst case) within one hundred jears. Now, during the last ten years it did rise already 1.5-2 cm .
The many factors (not all again) that - added together - have an influence you will find here: [broken link removed]
A major factor is the methane on the sea bed, when the oceans warm up by 3 degrees the methane will be released. And they warmed up by 0.8 degrees already.
See the graph at [broken link removed]
That the methane will not only released from the sea but from the thawing regions of permafrost has- again- not been included in the calculation.So even more than the 7 meters can be expected in an maybe even shorter time span.The other factor not included is that the ice caps are reflecting a lot of light back to space, so much that one can get blind from having a walk on the glaciers. This reflection causes cooling, so when the ice caps get smaller than this reflection factor will decrease as well , leadind to another accelleration.
The climate is a slow reacting thing, so if it will be 2100 or 2060 or 2140 - we don't know.
Munich Re , the world largest reinsurer has some interesting web pages about the issue as well. They at MR think loudly about not to extend any reinsurances for large CO2 emitters like powerplants and steeel mills.It would damage their bussiness because you can't serve two masters,insuring the bank as well as the robber might sound interesting in a cheap movie, in reality it hurts twice.
So, build your home high above .And sell what you have on the shores. Didn't This post will be deleted if not edited immediately say something like it btw.? (smiley)
Excuse my bad grammar and spelling as well!
 
the main problem is'nt the Americans love of SUVS and humongous fridges,its the rapid industrialisation of countries such as India and China-between them they account for over 2 billion people, and they have seen the western lifestyles and now they want their share-Ireland is in trouble from 2 fronts:Jobs going to lower cost countries, and the accleration of global warming due to the increased pollution emanating from heretofore agrarian countries such as China and India........daithi
 
daithi said:
the main problem is'nt the Americans love of SUVS and humongous fridges,its the rapid industrialisation of countries such as India and China-between them they account for over 2 billion people, and they have seen the western lifestyles and now they want their share-Ireland is in trouble from 2 fronts:Jobs going to lower cost countries, and the accleration of global warming due to the increased pollution emanating from heretofore agrarian countries such as China and India........daithi
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China and India are supported to the hilt by USA in their irresponsibility because that prevents a global consensus which could be the basis for sensible sustainable energy-use to the benefit of ALL! Can't remember the title of the t.v. series but I caught snatches of a programme where representatives of different nations and organisations "role-played" apocalyptic scenarios and modelled through to the consequences of decisions and alliances. Because these positions, decisions and alliances were based on us-versus-them thinking the results invariably resulted in global destruction.

I have the great honour of meeting and discussing with elderly individuals from different walks of life and coming from a wide range of cultures in the course of my academic research. The consensus from these people is that they have had the best of times, the world has gone to the dogs, the planet is at greater risk than ever before because of the increase in greed and decrease in wisdom and inspired leadership. This perspective is easily laughed off as "Victor Meldrew-ish" but this is tantamount to literal dismissal of the knowledge of those with most experience.

I felt some hope that the current discussions in Montreal are organised with a parallel facility for discussion without commitment which will provide a space for those responsibile for energy production and deployment at national and international levels to discuss and listen - an essential human activity which like trocaire is fast going out of fashion.
 
Re: Can Ireland survive climate change?

Marie said:
An area of Amazonian forest the size of Ireland is burnt down every week of the year for the past 20 years for McDonalds cheap, cheap burgers
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Doncha just love these apocryphal, nonsensical statistics. Stop and think! Ireland occupies 31557 square miles accordìng to the Ordnance Survey and they should know. Suppose McDonalds did convert an area the size of Ireland every week, for the last twenty years into cattle grazing land, that would require 20 x 52 x 31557 or 32,819,280 square miles of Amazonian rain forest. Impressive, huh? But, that would be an area of, say, about 5000 miles long by 6000 miles wide. Uh, oh!! Seems a little big, even for the amazonian rain forest. Or even for McDonalds fed supersized appetites. In fact the ENTIRE land area of South America is a mere 6,885,000 square miles! (Source http://www.globalgeografia.com/south_america/south_america.htm)

When the debate on global warning is conducted on the basis of such nonsensical "statistics" coupled with a gratuitous sideswipe at the stereotypical baddie, McDonalds, it is impossible to come to rational, scientifically valid conclusions. When (if) scientific proof exists, I will gladly respect it. Idealistic or ideologically driven pseudo-science should be exposed for what it is.
 
Hi Heinbloed, Thanks for the clarification. Sorry for the snotty tone of my last post and thanks for the detail and links. A was aware of most of what you said and agree with opinions on the topic. I was not aware of the methane gas issue, very interesting.
Observer; good post, I agree completely.
 
Can Ireland survive climate change?

Observer said:
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Doncha just love these apocryphal, nonsensical statistics. Stop and think! Ireland occupies 31557 square miles accordìng to the Ordnance Survey and they should know. Suppose McDonalds did convert an area the size of Ireland every week, for the last twenty years into cattle grazing land, that would require 20 x 52 x 31557 or 32,819,280 square miles of Amazonian rain forest. Impressive, huh? But, that would be an area of, say, about 5000 miles long by 6000 miles wide. Uh, oh!! Seems a little big, even for the amazonian rain forest. Or even for McDonalds fed supersized appetites. In fact the ENTIRE land area of South America is a mere 6,885,000 square miles! (Source http://www.globalgeografia.com/south_america/south_america.htm)

When the debate on global warning is conducted on the basis of such nonsensical "statistics" coupled with a gratuitous sideswipe at the stereotypical baddie, McDonalds, it is impossible to come to rational, scientifically valid conclusions. When (if) scientific proof exists, I will gladly respect it. Idealistic or ideologically driven pseudo-science should be exposed for what it is.
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I tend to get my information from people who have knowledge and understanding of what they're talking about and I will check my statistics on the extent of the Amazonian rainforest destruction with my friend Dr. Stephen Nugent (who is in the jungle at present working with his tribes but occasionally makes it to Santarem where there is electricity and he can pick up e-mail). Meanwhile you may be interested in one of Stephen's books Big Mouth: The Amazon Speaks where you will learn that each hectare of forest cleared produces only 22kg of meat, much about mercury-poisoning, and a useful reference to Linda Greenbaum's Plundering the timber on Brazilian Indian reservations (1989)
 
It doesn't matter how well informed Dr. Nugent is; you simply CAN'T FIT an area 1000 times the size of Ireland into South America. I await further data..........
 
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