Can I claim both the UK and Irish State Pensions?

TriciaR said:
I spent 25 years in the UK (1990 – 2015) and have received confirmation from HMRC that I can buy 2 years contributions to qualify for UK pension when I reach 67.
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Are you sure two is enough? Usually you need 35 years. 25+2=27.

TriciaR said:
If not, would I qualify if I stayed on for 2 more years (10 years Class A)?
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You will qualify for nothing unless you have 520 PRSI contributions . Remember that if you have investment income, rental profits, or self employed income in any year >€5,000 you pay €500 Class S PRSI or 4% of income, whichever is higher. Even if you are no longer employed between 63 and 65 this might apply.

Remember you will get your local authority lump sum and pension at age 65.
 
Are you in a pension scheme at present? If not, and if you have the means, you could put money into a PRSA now, claim tax relief on the contribution and retire it next year. You would receive 25% of the PRSA as a tax-free lump sum and you can draw down the remaining 75% over a couple of tax years. You can get 52 Class S PRSI contributions from such withdrawals, which could be added to your Class A.
 
Thanks for your reply

I did get a pension forecast from HMRC to confirm I would receive 169 (+£16 contracted out during a brief spell at EY) if I paid 2 years and spoke to them by telephone re application to pay. Have sent the form (CF83) - awaiting reply.

Thanks for confirmation on the 520. Sadly I have no other income so won't be liable for Class S.
Do I qualify for a local authority pension? I have a hazy (very, it was a long time ago) memory that some money was returned to me when I resigned - does that not exempt me from local authority scheme?. I promptly booked a holiday in Greece with the money - the folly of youth
 
TriciaR said:
Do I qualify for a local authority pension?
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Almost certainly yes if you were an employee paying Class D. Ring them up.

TriciaR said:
I paid 2 years and spoke to them by telephone re application to pay.
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You should be able to buy back all years to 2016 and a few going forward to get you the full amount which is £221 a week.

TriciaR said:
Sadly I have no other income so won't be liable for Class S.
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Could a friend employ you on a few hours a week? Could you do some self employment? Minimum Irish state pension is over €100 a week. Pay two years PRSI if you can at all.

There is possibly a six-figure lifetime sum in it for you if you follow the above three pieces of advices. Listen to them!
 
Dr Strangelove said:
Almost certainly yes if you were an employee paying Class D. Ring them up.


You should be able to buy back all years to 2016 and a few going forward to get you the full amount which is £221 a week.


Could a friend employ you on a few hours a week? Could you do some self employment? Minimum Irish state pension is over €100 a week. Pay two years PRSI if you can at all.

There is possibly a six-figure lifetime sum in it for you if you follow the above three pieces of advices. Listen to them!
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I will - thank you so much!
 
Hi, I am 54,I worked abroad in UK, Australia, came back to Ireland in 2006, not working 2006-2016, working from 2016. My question is if I buy back my UK years, how will that affect my Irish contributory pension, as I plan to buy back 2006 onwards, hopefully at class 2 (but will attempt to buy some at class 3 if refused). Can years I pay NI be used to qualify for Irish contributory pension. I also receive a Irish pension which is about 100e per week under bilateral system. Could I still keep getting that at increased rate when I retire rather than Irish contributions pension. Hope this makes sense. Thanks
 
Dr Strangelove said:
No.


Were you full time in care of children under 12?


A bit more clarity would help. What is the €100 pension you are currently receiving?
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Yes, full time care of children for 10 years. 100e is widows contributory pension I am currently receiving and I also work. Financially, I think I am better off to buy back as many NI years for UK pension that I can until I retire?
 
Modgal said:
Yes, full time care of children for 10 years. 100e is widows contributory pension I am currently receiving and I also work. Financially, I think I am better off to buy back as many NI years for UK pension that I can until I retire?
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Almost certainly yes. It’s the best investment return you’ll ever get and send off the form!

How long did you work in Australia? You may be able to use those contributions to boost your Irish contributory pension.
 
Dr Strangelove said:
Almost certainly yes. It’s the best investment return you’ll ever get and send off the form!

How long did you work in Australia? You may be able to use those contributions to boost your Irish contributory pension.
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Form sent off twice! Put in for appeal to try to get class 2 for years 2016 onwards. Thanks for your advice.
 
I have 25 years NI paid in the UK before moving to Ireland in 1997 and will have 28 years PRSI paid when I retire here in Ireland next year.

As far as I can see I will qualify for both a pro rata UK state pension and for a pro rata Irish (Contributory) state pension.

It also seems that the sum of both these reduced pensions will be greater than the full pension from either the UK or Ireland .

Both the UK and Irish application forms ask for details of foreign employment and talk about combining social security records.

I am concerned this process will be used to qualify me for a single either full UK or full Irish state pension (whichever is processed first) rather than receive the more beneficial two pro rata pensions.

How do I prevent this from happening? Do I simply not provide details of the foreign employment on each application?
 
ianmbetts said:
How do I prevent this from happening?
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I plan to leave this part blank when the time comes.

There is just a risk either side will try to aggregate the pensions when they shouldn’t.

Or if you are very honest you can fill it in and attach a cover letter instruct them to not aggregate.
 
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ianmbetts said:
How do I prevent this from happening? Do I simply not provide details of the foreign employment on each application?
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Stop worrying about nothing - both countries will calculate your pension entitlements using pro-rata and individual contributions methods and accord you whichever one is the most advantageous to you ie the highest

They do not try to accord the lowest pension -
 
I have 25 years NI paid in the UK before moving to Ireland in 1997 and will have 28 years PRSI paid when I retire here in Ireland next year.

As far as I can see I will qualify for both a pro rata UK state pension and for a pro rata Irish (Contributory) state pension.

It also seems that the sum of both these reduced pensions will be greater than the full pension from either the UK or Ireland .

Both the UK and Irish application forms ask for details of foreign employment and talk about combining social security records.

I am concerned this process will be used to qualify me for a single either full UK or full Irish state pension (whichever is processed first) rather than receive the more beneficial two pro rata pensions.

How do I prevent this from happening? Do I simply not provide details of the foreign employment on each application?
jpd said:
Stop worrying about nothing - both countries will calculate your pension entitlements using pro-rata and individual contributions methods and accord you whichever one is the most advantageous to you ie the highest

They do not try to accord the lowest pension -
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I am not sure if you understood the point, I understand how each country will calculate my entitlement and in each case it will inevitably be pro rata as I don't have enough contributions in either country for a full pension. No problem with that at all.

The problem that may arise is that whichever state processes my application first (Ireland) may, on seeing that I don't qualify for a full pension, try to take account of the contributions I made in the UK in order to qualify me for a full Irish pension (this is possible with contributions paid in any EU state and still also the UK). If this happens I would only be eligible for a single (full) Irish state pension.

In my case it is more beneficial to disregard the contributions paid in
the UK and apply for both pensions independently.

What is not clear will the two authorities arrive at that conclusion ? If not how do I ensure that happens ?
 
ianmbetts said:
What is not clear will the two authorities arrive at that conclusion ?
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They probably won’t, although it’s a human process and mistakes can happen.

ianmbetts said:
If not how do I ensure that happens ?
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Write a cover letter with your applications setting out the circumstances.

Even if they still make a mistake, you can complain annd appeal. Don’t worry, you will get what you’re entitled to
 
With 25 and 28 years NI/PRSI contributions in the UK and Ireland respectively, you will qualify for two pensions without a doubt.

Because of the way the Irish pension is calculated, you will get a better pension based on your Irish PRSA contributions alone rather than a pro-rata one based on the combined contributions. Currently your 28 years will probably get you a full contributary Irish pension.

Not sure about the UK calculation, but who should ask them if you can buy back extra years to qualify for a full pension. This is well worth the investment, especially if you qualify for Class 2 contributions

First up, get a record of your NI/PRSI contributions to make sure that they are correct. This can be done online
 
Ok I am using the term pro rata to mean a reduced state pension in both cases.

As far as I can tell since I don't have 40 years in Ireland my Irish pension will be calculated with a proportion derived from the normal average rule and proportion derived from the TCA rule. I think it's about 80:20 now and gradually moving to 100% TCA over the next few years.
So I this I will not get a full Irish pension, but pretty close.

With respect to the UK the calculations are different but the end result is similar in that I won't get a full UK pension as I don't have 35 years, so it will be 25/35 x the full pension. This is what I meant by pro rata in this case.

Anyway it's pretty obvious that the two reduced pensions will be greater than single full pension from either state.

Its not in either states interest to combine contributions to entitle me to a single full pension. Well definitely not in the interest of the state that ends up paying it, which I would assume since I am resident in Ireland would be the Irish state.
 
They don't combine to pay a full state pension

They combine to calculate the pension, probably full state after 43 years (25+28) and then they pay a proportion of it - so in Ireland you would get 28/(25+28) x full pension and in the UK 25/(25+28) x full pension
 
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