Can I appeal a fine for speed and dangerous driving without a photographic evidence - Ireland

latincork

New Member
Hi,

Today I took my motorbike for a spin in one of the local roads in the Cork countryside.

I am always EXTREMELY careful while driving and I always respect speed signs and traffic rules.

Unfortunately a member of Garda this afternoon asked me to stop and in a very disrespectful and unprofessional way told me that I was driving in a dangerous way and that my speed was 10Km/h above the normal (the speed sign was showing 50Km/h so my speed apparently was 60 Km/h).

I immediately apologised but I tried to make my point as in my opinion I was not over speeding.

He didn't pay attention to what I said, therefore I asked where the photographic proof or the evidence of what he was saying was (he was only by himself with no other cops and no witnesses).

He replied saying that he didn't need to prove me anything because he is a Garda and I am not (that was his real answer).

Now apparently I will get the fine delivered to me via post and I will have 30 days to pay from today.

My question is: are Garda obliged to provide drivers in the above case with a photographic evidence? I remember a few years ago being stopped by a Garda who gave me a fine because of over speeding but he provided me with the photographic evidence at that time and therefore I couldn't say anything. But now it's his word agains mine and, again, no photographic evidence nor witnesses.

Can please some advise?

Thanks.
 
Are you saying that he had no speed camera?

Were you speeding or "over speeding" whatever that is?

I suspect that he will charge you with dangerous driving rather than speeding.

Brendan
 

Palerider

Frequent Poster
Sounds like he issued you with a fixed notice penalty, you can decide to ignore this and take your chances in Court when you will have the opportunity to put your side to the Judge, you do however have history here with a previous speeding offence and that will be declared in Court which will not help you.

If he was travelling behind you he could judge your speed.

50kmh is slow and can be hard to stick to in a car, on a bike possibly harder.

Pay the fine.
 

Dermot

Frequent Poster
How did the Garda determine that you were doing 60km per hour ?. If he was travelling behind you in a car it would be unlikely that the car was "recently" calibrated to determine its accuracy for a speeding check. What if any notice did you get from The Garda. Were there two normal size speed signs (one on either side of the road) as you entered the 50kmh zone ?.
 

Bronte

Frequent Poster
Unfortunately a member of Garda this afternoon asked me to stop and in a very disrespectful and unprofessional way

He didn't pay attention to what I said, therefore I asked where the photographic proof or the evidence of what he was saying was (he was only by himself with no other cops and no witnesses).

He replied saying that he didn't need to prove me anything because he is a Garda and I am not (that was his real answer).

Can please some advise?

.
You're describing this encounter after the fact in a very calm manner. But you sound cheeky to me. Because you were probably livid. My advise is to pay the fine. I find it hard to believe you weren't doing something that caught his attention.

As it happens I went to our postbox on Saturday and found a fine from the police. I asked my husband had he been at the road mentioned on the form and for the life of him he couldn't see how he could have got a fine, but I know that road and I know my husband, I figured out he'd got caught in a tail of cars and decided to avoid that by going via a garage on the corner. Oddly he never thought of that until I suggested it.
 
I figured out he'd got caught in a tail of cars and decided to avoid that by going via a garage on the corner. Oddly he never thought of that until I suggested it.
Is that illegal?

Entering a garage by one entrance and exiting another one further on?

I always thought it was bad manners, but not illegal.

Brendan
 

Leo

Moderator
Can please some advise?
Do you by any chance have location services enabled on your phone? If so your timeline data will include a certain level of speed details. Perhaps if it was a short spin this might be enough to demonstrate you were unlikely to have been travelling at the speed suggested.
 

Bronte

Frequent Poster
Is that illegal?

Entering a garage by one entrance and exiting another one further on?

I always thought it was bad manners, but not illegal.
I've no idea if it's illegal or not. They quoted some section of some traffic code. I'm paying the fine as I have zero interest in trying it on with the legal system abroad. However bad Ireland is there is no way past the police here. I know my husband did it even if he's in deniel in his head. I know his driving habits. I was more upset about it because I'd warned him not to do anything 'illegal' for two years as he got caught in a wrong lane before a year ago, which he denies and that was a hefty fine and I'm worried if you get too many that it might accumulate.

Obviously if he'd stopped to get petrol it would have been a different matter. I've seen people do it before. It's very tempting. LOL. I pissed off my husband when I asked him did he not see the police, clearly not !! He got away I think with parking on double yellow lines outside an Irish hotel for a minute last Christmas, (going in to get the suitcases), they said they'd send him to court, that was in January so fingers crossed on this. I'm making my husband sound very bad, he's not really. I got a fine for speeding in another country about 5 years ago, I paid that one. But then I got a fine for illegal parking in a different country that we had not been in at all and I disputed that and they sent all kinds of bogus legal threats but I know I could prove we hadn't been in that particular country for years (we were leaving for America the day of the 'incident' so no way could we have been there. And my bank records would prove it), I was amazed at the level of 'serious' letters that looked like they came from lawyers (they did not) by a well known company. (the council had outsourced fine collection).
 

Bronte

Frequent Poster
Do you by any chance have location services enabled on your phone? If so your timeline data will include a certain level of speed details. Perhaps if it was a short spin this might be enough to demonstrate you were unlikely to have been travelling at the speed suggested.
Bert will have to explain that one to Judge Judy when the OP goes to court.
 
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latincork

New Member
Thanks to all for your kind contributions.

I am tempted to pay it but it's extremely frustrating especially because it looks unfair to me.

It's true: I have overspeeded sometimes in the past 6 years ago while I was coming from Dublin but at that time the garda provided me with the evidence produced by his camera, therefore I couldn't object it.

I will decide what to do when I get the fine delivered at my letter box but if I decide not to pay it and bring it to the Court I will post here the outcome of this story.

Again thank you very much everyone.
 

Purple

Frequent Poster
It's just speeding, not overspeeding.

Just pay the fine and take the points. Any other option won't be worth the stress, even if you win and that's very unlikely.
 

Leper

Frequent Poster
You know what? Pay the fine. I think every vehicle driver in Cork is a law unto himself/herself. In Cork, about 5% use the indicators on roundabouts and on turning. Cork's bus lanes are full of cars 8.00am to 9.30am and 4.30pm to 6.30pm. I think I'm the only person in Cork who stays out of yellow boxes. A red traffic light means press the accelerator on approach and don't stop for at least 4 seconds. Lane jumping is a disease in Cork. A minority of Cork's cyclists use cycle lanes.

I would love Cork's gardaí to take the above on board.
 

Luternau

Frequent Poster
@Leper
Nationwide problem. Very low levels of enforcement /policing. You can park where you like in this country now and unless a private company is enforcing, you will get away with it.
Cyclists do not have to use cycle lanes and sometimes it's safer not to use them. Some are in bad condition or badly designed
 

Páid

Frequent Poster
I was under the same impression add you until I did a bit of research. I think you might be talking about this SI. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/332/made/en/print

Leo chickened out. They didn't remove the obligation to use a cycle lane in the end though it looks like they forgot to remove the following section in the explanatory note;

new and amended requirements for use of cycle tracks (only use of contraflow cycle track and of any cycle track in pedestrianised area is mandatory);
They didn't rescind the SI and correct their mistake because the explanatory note has no binding effect.
 
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