Can a widow access money in her husband's bank account?

Managing, or helping to manage, someone's account when they are alive is fine - assuming you have their permission

Doing so after they have died, is not
 
Freelance said:
In my parents case there was no requirement for probate (other than to satisfy the bank) as all assets were jointly held.
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Freelance did the right thing.
He transferred his mother's money from an account which was likely to be frozen into an account which she could access.
 
This thread prompted me to contact our bank and have all our savings accounts changed to joint. Turns out we have to close and set up new ones, in branch, they can't just simply add another account holder. And from other threads, share accounts also only have one owner too.
 
Freelance said:
If the account/s are accessible via internet banking and the credentials are available, the widow could log on to the account and transfer some or all of the money to an account in the widow's sole name in a different bank.

At the time my father passed away (a decade ago) my parents banking was via joint accounts in PTSB*. At the time, PTSB were notorious for freezing joint accounts on notification of death and not releasing them until probate was taken out. In my parents case there was no requirement for probate (other than to satisfy the bank) as all assets were jointly held. I opened fresh accounts for my mother in BOI, logged on to PTSB internet banking and transferred everything. My mother and siblings were fully aware of what I was proposing and approved in advance.

* I have heard that PTSB no longer behave like this, this I cannot say whether or not this is correct.
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Why would a joint account ever be frozen by a bank when only one of the account holders dies? Makes no sense.
 
demoivre said:
Why would a joint account ever be frozen by a bank when only one of the account holders dies? Makes no sense.
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Thank you for your opinion.

It happened frequently in the past. It happened to my grandmother (my uncle bankrolled her for almost 12 months while my grandfather's estate was being sorted out), and to two other's I know. In the case of my father's accounts (joint accounts with my mother), it was his solicitor who warned us to "proceed with caution" regarding any joint accounts, in particular any held with PTSB. The solicitor specifically mentioned that it was quite likely that the accounts would be frozen, and that we would have to apply for probate to satisfy the bank. (Of course this is not to say or imply that he was aware how I dealt with the issue). I was never close enough to one of the cases to know the actual legal basis for this.

I understand that the position is clearer today, which is great, and the banks now have published "bereavement guides". But it is still possibly for Joint Accounts to be frozen in some circumstances. For example:
"If either joint bank account holder develops a mental capacity issue, the bank may freeze the joint account until formal arrangements can be put in place to manage the finances of the person experiencing mental health issues. This may make it difficult to access your money."

from: https://bpfi.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/BPFI-Guide-to-Safeguarding-your-Money.24.pdf
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There are other potential issues with joint accounts. For example, a friend of my parents had her money (a very considerable sum) in a joint account with her husband. His mental capacity diminished over time, and eventually he moved to residential care. Shortly afterwards, she went to the bank to withdraw funds. The bank refused. After a lot of digging it transpired that he had visited the bank a year previously and the bank official had advised that the account was an old fashioned account and paid very low interest and that much better terms could be offered if the account were closed, a new account were opened and the balance transferred. This was done. What nobody noticed was that the new account was in his sole name. The bank refused to take any action and the woman was forced to go to the high court to resolve the matter.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but joint accounts aren't a panacea. Even where joint accounts make sense, there is merit in leaving some funds in the parties sole names.
 
Freelance said:
I opened fresh accounts for my mother in BOI, logged on to PTSB internet banking and transferred everything.
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Obviously, if you were able to do that, the account wasn't frozen. Meaning, presumably, that at this point the bank didn't know that your father was dead.

And that's the risk of relying on a strategy like this. There's lots do do when someone dies, and if by the time you get around to tackling this the bank has already learned of the death, this won't work.
 
Freelance said:
Thank you for your opinion.

It happened frequently in the past. It happened to my grandmother (my uncle bankrolled her for almost 12 months while my grandfather's estate was being sorted out), and to two other's I know. In the case of my father's accounts (joint accounts with my mother), it was his solicitor who warned us to "proceed with caution" regarding any joint accounts, in particular any held with PTSB. The solicitor specifically mentioned that it was quite likely that the accounts would be frozen, and that we would have to apply for probate to satisfy the bank. (Of course this is not to say or imply that he was aware how I dealt with the issue). I was never close enough to one of the cases to know the actual legal basis for this.

I understand that the position is clearer today, which is great, and the banks now have published "bereavement guides". But it is still possibly for Joint Accounts to be frozen in some circumstances. For example:

There are other potential issues with joint accounts. For example, a friend of my parents had her money (a very considerable sum) in a joint account with her husband. His mental capacity diminished over time, and eventually he moved to residential care. Shortly afterwards, she went to the bank to withdraw funds. The bank refused. After a lot of digging it transpired that he had visited the bank a year previously and the bank official had advised that the account was an old fashioned account and paid very low interest and that much better terms could be offered if the account were closed, a new account were opened and the balance transferred. This was done. What nobody noticed was that the new account was in his sole name. The bank refused to take any action and the woman was forced to go to the high court to resolve the matter.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but joint accounts aren't a panacea. Even where joint accounts make sense, there is merit in leaving some funds in the parties sole names.
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You are entirely correct and I’m very well aware of this. Because of personal circumstances and as we live abroad I’ve taken legal advice on banking etc. Joint accounts gives no guarantees of plain sailing. You need to have your ducks in a row. Not to divulge too much in my case I’m legally and financially ready to leave one jurisdiction for Ireland. As advised by my solicitor. The advice and legal paperwork cost nearly 10k for my husband and I.

I have an Irish friend abroad whose husband dropped dead and she is in a right financial pickle as her husband handled all the finances but did zero planning, so she’s tied up legally with her children. On top of that inheritance tax rules are unreal. And the joint account was frozen. So no bills could be payed. Ye ould friendly Irish bank doesn’t exist here.

Not advised by my solicitor I’ve managed to nearly have the children Ireland ready as well. Nightmare getting them bank accounts with BofI and AIB with only one child yet to go. It’s a sad situation but one must be financially and legally prepared.
 
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