Brian Cowan and Wage Restraint

Yorky said:
I work very hard too but don't get an astronomical salary funded by the taxpayer with payrises regardless of performance, only scrutinised every five years and then if I get 'the sack' have a full pension to live off. Politics is a classic example of 'nice work if you can get it'.
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I work hard as well while work takes up 1-2 night a week on top of a 50 hour week I don't have to go to meetings/funerals/ parties/ functions/ events 6-7 nights a week.
I can go out in public without having people I don’t know abuse me/ ask me for help with problems that have nothing to do with my job or watch my behaviour in case I am caught on camera/ ear-shot telling a non-PC joke/ having a drink. When my children are teenagers I will not have to worry about loosing my job if one of them gets drunk/ is arrested. In short my private life is private. What price can be put on that?

The phenomenon of government s lasting a full term is a recent one so politicians are usually scrutinised more often than every five years.
The pension for a single term TD or minister is bugger all.
 
Yorky said:
I work very hard too but don't get an astronomical salary funded by the taxpayer with payrises regardless of performance, only scrutinised every five years and then if I get 'the sack' have a full pension to live off. Politics is a classic example of 'nice work if you can get it'.
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Ah c'mon :)

The world is not equal...and certainly not the working world! There's plenty of Joe Soaps out there who work 'ard down coalmine every day and have little to show for it!!! Being a director in some big fancy company is also nice work if you can get it...but I fail to see the point in comparing the two?

Would you rather if they got paid very average salaries? We'd have monkeys running the country if the pay wasn't good.

Ok...hang on...there may be a problem with my argument somewhere!! ;)
 
Yorky said:
Ever listen and/or look at Willie O'Dea / Charlie McCreevey / Mary Harney??
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Yes, which is why I have formed the views that I have. What have their looks got to do with it?

Yorky said:
Let's face it government ministers don't have to be good at anything apart from evading questions. The civil servants do all of the work and brief the relevant minister and then he/she presents it to the public and gets all of the credit!
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That’s right, that’s how it works.:rolleyes:

Yorky said:
I don't care what anyone says, the money/security/perks/lack of accountability has to be the closest to a Utopian job one can get.
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Indeed. Don’t let reality colour your views.
 
While it's fine to argue about salaries which are high compared to our European neighbours I'm not sure if naming TDs here is fair, many of those mentioned have had many many signifigant accomplishments, stretching back decades in some cases, and likely as not would be well regarded within the business sector.

I can remember being dismissive of politians - but having met a couple people who've occasionally dealt with the senior ministers, it seems that there's some genuinely impressive people holding some of these offices.
 
Yorky said:
I don't care what anyone says, the money/security/perks/lack of accountability has to be the closest to a Utopian job one can get.
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So presumably you'll be joining up with your favourite party next week and getting your Minister's seat at the next election - right? Why wouldn't you go for utopia?
 
An enjoyable thread. The truth is that a large number of TD and Minister's have generous expenses that is some cases add to their salary up to, in some small cases, an additional 100%. Also, dont forget little perks like extra mortgage relief for houses bought in Dublin by rural TD's. Both TD's and Minister's are very well paid by any European or International standards. The Taoseach is paid above the PM's of the Netherlands and Poland, both with significantly higher populations. While it could be argued that Ministers face scutiny every 5 years, the reality is that they are judged on local issues rather than on the Ministerial portfolio that they held, e.g. the last Programme for Govt informed that a metro would be in place to the airport by 2007...I don't recall the Min. for Transport not getting reelected..
 
Expenses are expenses. If your company sends you to India ten times a year should the costs incurred be counted as income?
 
I don't know if politicians are overpaid or not. I was talking about the irony of them telling the country about the importance of wage restraint when their own record with regard to their own pay and overseeing a process like benchmarking proves that they don't really practice what they preach. Example of what I am talking about:

The Irish Times reported last July that politicians received their fourth pay rise in a year at the beginning of June, bringing the basic salary of a TD to €96,560 before special allowances and expenses are taken into account.

For the Taoiseach and his Ministers, it was the sixth pay rise over the past 12 months. Mr Ahern's salary is now €258,730 a year, including his TD's salary, while the Tánaiste earns €222,256 and other members of the Cabinet get €204,020.

Six pay rises in 12 months is not wage restraint
 
Purple said:
Expenses are expenses. If your company sends you to India ten times a year should the costs incurred be counted as income?
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How is that relevant?

Why does he need a personal driver in a brand new Mercedes to drive him the short distance to work?
 
Bazoo said:
Why?

It was a genuine question.
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If they are going to or from a meeting or on a long journey they will spend their time on the phone and/or talking to the other people in the car. The may also be reading papers etc. Think of a minister as the head or a large company from a workload point of view. There are also security issues and the issue of the perception that we project to other countries.
To suggest that they should drive themselves to work etc shows a total lack of appreciation of the role they have and the work they do. It never ceases to amaze me how small minded Irish people can be. They are not everyday Joe-soaps, they are the leaders of our country and the state car is also a sign of respect for the office they hold.
I remember ten or fifteen years ago there was a load of noise from a bunch of idiots when the government upgraded the government jet.
 
Purple said:
If they are going to or from a meeting or on a long journey they will spend their time on the phone and/or talking to the other people in the car. The may also be reading papers etc. Think of a minister as the head or a large company from a workload point of view. There are also security issues and the issue of the perception that we project to other countries.
To suggest that they should drive themselves to work etc shows a total lack of appreciation of the role they have and the work they do. It never ceases to amaze me how small minded Irish people can be. They are not everyday Joe-soaps, they are the leaders of our country and the state car is also a sign of respect for the office they hold.
I remember ten or fifteen years ago there was a load of noise from a bunch of idiots when the government upgraded the government jet.
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That was not my suggestion at all and your implication that I am small-minded is patronising in the extreme. I am fully aware that they are not everyday Joe Soaps.

Restraint is probably best demonstrated by example. Seeing a brand spanking new top of the range Mercedes with chauffer ferrying the Minister to work is not a good example. Perhaps restraint could be shown if the car wasn't jettisoned in favour of a new model each year.
 
They are not everyday Joe-soaps, they are the leaders of our country and the state car is also a sign of respect for the office they hold.
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They are Joe-soaps. People, like you and me. (Unless we were suddenly annexed by North Korea)

Out of interest, how are politicians wages determined?
 
Yorky said:
Because I would be too honest and direct which does not make a good politician. Just look at the behaviour of the politicians, including the highest political office, in the tribunals: an absolute disgrace; they have gone to extraordinary lengths to avoid telling the truth.
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Let's just explore this a little. Are you seriously suggesting that all 166 TDs are corrupt? And if so, what does this say about the electorate that keep choosing corrupt TDs?
 
Yorky said:
No but I have yet to hear one answer questions directly and honestly and admit to mistakes made.
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You forget that our TD's are our representatives. We don't vote for people who make mistakes, or ones who answer questions directly. We vote for nice TD's, like the fella down the street, and yer one who cares about such-and-such, and the guy who gave us a football pitch etc. Look at the candidates who went for election in your area. Did the straight talking ones get in? Or the ones who talked about mistakes made?

We can't really blame the politicians for being elected.
 
Yorky said:
No but I have yet to hear one answer questions directly and honestly and admit to mistakes made.
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OK then, so back to my first question. If you accept there are honest TDs out there, and you are certain it is such a cushy number, why don't you become a TD?
 
Yorky said:
This type of voter doesn't deserve the right to vote.
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After reading through this thread, Yorky I find you views leaning toward the extreme.

Everybody should have a right to vote, even if you dont agree with their choices. We live in a democratic country and hopfully it will remain that way.

I'm not diplomatic enough to be one and I would be embarrassed to admit being one.
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You would not stand a chance of been elected. This would not be because of directness or lack of dipomatic skills, it would be due to lack of suppport for extremist views.
 
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