Brendan recommending an unlicensed bus service

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cerbera said:
If he did disclose it I would strongly think that he would be refused insurance as noinsurance company in their right mind would take on an unlicenced operator.
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Can you please supply some evidence for this contention. How do you explain how unlicensed pubs and private motor cars can obtain insurance?
 
Does anyone here actually know the conditions that attach to bus insurance ?

I don't and it's mindless speculation unless someone does...
 
There is a major problem with the licensing mechanism - there is some anti-competition clause which stops the department issuing a license which duplicates the route of an existing license. So, if you want to mess up your competitors plans apply for a route license before them, get the license and then sit on it. The department will then refuse to issue a license for your competitor because "someone else is already licensed". The fact that someone else doesn't even own a bus or have any plans to operate the route doesn't get in the way of the departments logic.

While people might be happy with the service provided and think that it's all ok, the busses are shiney, the drivers are nice, they seem to have insurance, etc . . . there is a fundamental problem in that they are operating without a license.

The relevant legislation needs a bit of shaking up, but until that happens the people in the market have to play by the existing rules. It's quite astonishing to find the Garai apparently unwilling to act on a clear breach of the regulations (possibly of the law also).

z
 
zag said:
a clear breach of the regulations (possibly of the law also).
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Are they not the same thing? I would have expected the regulations to be ultimately based on Statutory Instruments.

zag said:
While people might be happy with the service provided and think that it's all ok, the busses are shiney, the drivers are nice
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Slightly off topic but apropos of this point - I recently had cause to travel day return Dublin-Wexford twice a week for the past month or so and found Bus Eireann's service excellent all round. I also purchased tickets online which was very handy and at a slight discount to buying in the station or on the bus.
 
My experience is that Bus Eireann's services are very good, notwithstanding the appalling facilities in Busaras in Dublin and the fact that their seats offer a little less legroom than other coaches.

The state of regulation in the sector and the inhibitions against competition are unfortunate, though.
 
I think there are two issues here:

1. The issue of the legality of the Patton Flyer to operate without a license from the DOT and all the issues that this raises around liability insurance etc

and

2. Brendan recommending this service to readers of AAM even though the service is unlicensed.

One is a legal issue and one is an editorial policy issue.

Brendan feels that it is ok for him to recommend an unlicensed service because, in his opinion, they (Patton Flyer) have been unfairly treated by bureaucracy and their service is for the betterment of society or the common good.

If this is the case can all posters recommend a service or a product that is unlicensed if, in their opinion, it is for the betterment of society or the common good?
 
efm said:
Ah maybe....but would Brendan be right to recommend such an unlicensed pub on AAM?
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and if not can anyone recommend any company with their tax clearance cert, repack details, weee registration..etc...etc...etc..
 
efm said:
Ah maybe....but would Brendan be right to recommend such an unlicensed pub on AAM?
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Provided the lack of the licence did not impact on customer facilities or welfare, or was not attributable to criminality or another serious issue, I wouldn't see any problem in him doing so. Others may take a different view.
 
I recommend the unlicensed pub in the house in the housing estate in Limerick I heard it's great craic and even though completely illegal is still not shut down.

I personally don't mind if the bus servise is unlicensed, but do care if they are insured. This because I believe Bus Eireann nowadays only give a good service because of the competition they have from operators who started out 'illegally', that's why we now have a great service from Shannon to Galway with Citilink, that's how Nestors/Burkes from Galway to Dublin started out and at a price ordinary people could afford. Remember if you hailed a hackney cab on the street it was illegal but I did it, coz I wanted to get home and the powers that be decided only a few taxis could operate.
 
Bronte said:
and the powers that be decided only a few taxis could operate.
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What powers were they? Hardly the Government or Taxi Regulator given deregulation in this sector? Maybe you mean the NTDU when they were on strike recently or something?
 
EFM asked:

If this is the case can all posters recommend a service or a product that is unlicensed if, in their opinion, it is for the betterment of society or the common good?
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That is what we are discussing here.

I presume most people are agreed that we don't show people how to evade taxes.

A majority believe that we should not facilitate hacking into NTL etc.

I think that this Patton Flyer issue is unique. I am not aware of other unlicensed services being recommended on Askaboutmoney.

ClubMan thinks we should not be highlighting them.

I see the inconsistency in allowing one and not the other, but I see good grounds for making an exception.

Brendan
 
Brendan said:
I am not aware of other unlicensed services being recommended on Askaboutmoney.
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Could this be because other attempts to recommend such services would be closed by the mods for promoting illegal services? (This is an actual question not a rhetorical one as I don't know the answer!)
 
Brendan said:
ClubMan thinks we should not be highlighting them.
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Not quite. I have a problem with people recommending such an unlicensed service. Same as I would if somebody recommended an unbonded travel agent for example. I don't have a problem with people highlighting the fact that such unlicensed services exist.
 
cerbera said:
I recall a thread being withdrawn on the use of digital receivers capable of unscrambling the NTL signal. The company that sells these receivers do not have a licence from NTL to do so, however it is not illegal to use one as personally you have done nothing wrong. The only "wrong" being done, or so it is still being argued but cannot be stopped for one reason or another is between NTL and whoever produces the receiver. I don't see the difference here, like the receiver the Patten flyer does not have a licence, but unlike the NTL box it has Brendans approval because it suits him to use one and not the other.
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No , those receivers are illegal under irish law, once plugged into the cable point the end user it breaking the law...

a end user riding an unlicensed bus is not....
 
a end user riding an unlicensed bus is not....
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Are you certain that is the case? - Even if the end user knows the bus is unlicensed?
If I'm caught drinking in a (licensed) pub after hours, I can get fined.

I think that this Patton Flyer issue is unique. I am not aware of other unlicensed services being recommended on Askaboutmoney.

ClubMan thinks we should not be highlighting them.
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I would be inclined to agree with Clubman in this instance. Which is the next unlicensed service to be classified as 'unique'? With a zero tolerance policy, there can be no fuzzy exceptions, and it's easier to police.

(Unless of course Brendan is recommending the service under a personal capacity, and not 'founder of AAM' capacity.)
 
leghorn said:
(Unless of course Brendan is recommending the service under a personal capacity, and not 'founder of AAM' capacity.)
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I think that is a given. Most moderators post most of the time in their personal capacity and not as moderators representing some sort of AAM "party line".
 
I am recommending the service in a personal capacity. Askaboutmoney does not endorse any services or products.

However, the question is whether Askaboutmoney should allow recommendations or post on unlicensed services, when we have a clear policy of not allowing promotion of illegal activities such as tax evasion.

Brendan
 
It is impossible to tax a car unless its insurance is up to date
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Not true at all, when one renews their tax online it asks you for your insurer and your policy number, these can easily be made up so the Motor Tax office does not actually know whether you have insurance or not, you declare you do have insurance by lying but this does not prevent you from renewing your tax.

However, the question is whether Askaboutmoney should allow recommendations or post on unlicensed services, when we have a clear policy of not allowing promotion of illegal activities such as tax evasion.
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IMHO AAM should not allow recommendations or posts on unlicensed services.
 
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