Breakdown of law and order

[Firefly]

OK, so just to make sure I understand you correctly - you are concluding that any able-bodied person in council housing for more than 12 months is not rational - right?

Truthseeker got to this before me.

Just curious - do you know many people who live in council housing?

Good question. My own parents started out in social housing (before I was born). I have an aunt & uncle in social housing and 4 first cousins . I know another couple in the 60s friends of my parent's friends - the husband has stated quite clearly that he had no interest in going to work and was happy with his lot. He lives in a decent-enough free house and walks his dogs every day.
[/QUOTE]

What is the difference between 'unable to work on medical grounds' and 'on the sick'? What specifically do you mean by 'on the sick'?

Almost had me there but April the 1st was last Friday.

 

[csirl]

Originally Posted by Complainer http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?p=1155786#post1155786
What is the difference between 'unable to work on medical grounds' and 'on the sick'? What specifically do you mean by 'on the sick'?

I know someone who is from one of the well known 'deprived' areas - she worked her way out and has a good job. However, she has a close relative who is 'on the sick'. This fellow has diabetes. The day he was diagnosed, the entire family went out celebrating as the diagnosis qualified him to go on the sick, so he would never need to look for work again and will get whatever benefits/housing he needs. His sympthoms are no worse than those of the thousands of diabetics who work in this country - he's no complications or real limitations and is physically active.

 

[Firefly]

I know someone who is from one of the well known 'deprived' areas - she worked her way out and has a good job. However, she has a close relative who is 'on the sick'. This fellow has diabetes. The day he was diagnosed, the entire family went out celebrating as the diagnosis qualified him to go on the sick, so he would never need to look for work again and will get whatever benefits/housing he needs. His sympthoms are no worse than those of the thousands of diabetics who work in this country - he's no complications or real limitations and is physically active.

Anecdotal evidence...tut tut...don't you know that'll be thrown out of court

 

[csirl]

Anecdotal evidence...tut tut...don't you know that'll be thrown out of court

No, I've actually met the guy in question and he's told me this himself........so ok with rules of hearsay.

 

[Complainer]

I know someone who is from one of the well known 'deprived' areas - she worked her way out and has a good job. However, she has a close relative who is 'on the sick'. This fellow has diabetes. The day he was diagnosed, the entire family went out celebrating as the diagnosis qualified him to go on the sick, so he would never need to look for work again and will get whatever benefits/housing he needs. His sympthoms are no worse than those of the thousands of diabetics who work in this country - he's no complications or real limitations and is physically active.

I take these stories with a pinch of salt, like the 'cars/hairdressing/pets for immigrants' stories. Diabetes on its own is generally not enough to qualify for invalidity pension. Have a look at this appeals case, showing the kinds of impacts that are required to qualify http://www.socialwelfareappeals.ie/pubs/cases/sickness_invp1.html

If he is defrauding the system, then you should have reported him.

Thats not what I understood from it - I understood it to mean any able bodied person living in atrocious conditions in council housing should be able to get the shoulder to the wheel and better their lot.

So why do you think that anyone ends up in long term social housing?

The community spirit comment is rubbish - are you seriously saying that people would prefer to endanger their children in the name of community spirit?

It may seem strange to you, but some people are prepared to work to improve the conditions of their whole community, rather than just looking after their own back.

 

[truthseeker]

So why do you think that anyone ends up in long term social housing?

Could be a myriad of reasons. We were specificially talking about able bodied people and atrocious conditions. In that particular case its laziness.

It may seem strange to you, but some people are prepared to work to improve the conditions of their whole community, rather than just looking after their own back.

Its not just their own backs though is it? Its their kids backs. You think its ok to try to improve the conditions of the whole community and in doing so put your own health and your childrens health at risk? To me thats just irresponsible, stupid and misguided.

 

[Firefly]

Its not just their own backs though is it? Its their kids backs. You think its ok to try to improve the conditions of the whole community and in doing so put your own health and your childrens health at risk? To me thats just irresponsible, stupid and misguided.

Anti-social behaviour can & does occur in private estates. But, time and time again the most violent crimes, as per the OP, occur in certain social housing estates. Any responsible parent IMO (whose children's welfare and upbringing is their key concern) would find a way out of this long before their children got wrapped up in this. A child's behaviour is ultimately the responsibility of the parents. Any able-bodied adult staying in this situation is making a choice for which they should bear the consequences

 

[Bronte]

.

Dolphin House

It's called community spirit.


Here's one (of several) possible scenarios. You don't believe it is likely that someone can freeze to death in Dublin today. You prioritise your kids safety, but you are concerned about risks to your few remaining bits of property if you leave your premises unattended. You can't afford a portable heater, and you're in arrears on your ESB bill. You hope that tomorrow will bring something better. As the hypothermia becomes more severe, your thinking becomes more sluggish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothermia#Severe) and you do not respond in a rational way. You might do a bit of Paradoxical undressing, which makes things worse. You die in your sleep.

In relation to Dolphine House you actually think that people stay there with their kids getting sicker and sicker due to community spirit? Is that not negligence by the parents.

In relation to Ballymun. Surely one's own life and a risk of freezing to death should be more of a priority than one's property. In any case one could remove any valuables for the duration of the cold spell. Also there was apparently limitless amounts of hot water so one could have made hot water bottles from that. Not saying this is the situation in this tragic case but the story makes no sense to me. How come other people didn't die in the flats if conditions were so severe.

 

[Complainer]

How come other people didn't die in the flats if conditions were so severe.

I believe she was the last person left in that tower, which is why the heating had been turned off. We'll probably hear more about this case today, as it goes back to the Coroner's Court.

I'll come back in more detail on community spirit later, if I get a chance.