Bratislava, Slovakia

Sue,

I'd be very interested in hearing what you find out over there, thanks. I'm particularly interested in hearing about any property management companies you come across as I'm having trouble finding them on the web. I've been looking at apartments from Letterstone (Octopus), Arc (Rozadol / Dominant) and Ballymore (although they're not responding to my inquiries). Would certainly appreciate any other good options you come across - thanks!
 
Woods - cheeky question - but any countries / regions you think a (relatively) new, young investor should be looking at right now. I'm keen to take a risk on some of my gains from the Irish market and I need to diversify more (have already bought in London and Paris). God knows, my stock investments are getting comparatively meagre returns...
 
Apsil said:
Woods - cheeky question - but any countries / regions you think a (relatively) new, young investor should be looking at right now. I'm keen to take a risk on some of my gains from the Irish market and I need to diversify more (have already bought in London and Paris). God knows, my stock investments are getting comparatively meagre returns...

As I have stated before we have made our first purchase in Bratislava but we are planning to look at Romania and Bulgaria as well. We think that there will be a good pick up in these areas when they join the EU.
We will be building appartments in Bratislava and we decided this based on the number of units needed there and the number coming on stream. There is a considerable gap in these figures and our first purchase is providing enough ground for about 300 appartments and we will be picking up options on adjacent parcels.
We looked at Kiev and set up a company there and purchased 2 appartments but decided to not take it any further because of the risk element there so now the appartments are just let by an agency on a nightly basis (I think that they are mostly let to Americans looking for brides) but they are getting a very good return. It is not a place that I would recomend because you are buying in US dollars and the political situation is still not stable.
 
woods said:
We will be building appartments in Bratislava

Woods, I'm guessing if your building there you have done quite a bit of research on the area. I'm just curious if someone was to buy a new apartment in Bratislava is it possible to rent to young Slovakian professionals, can they afford it?

Would an investor have to be pitching their place at foreign workers on assignment in the likes of the car factories?

Is there any evidence of Austrians working in the likes of Vienna and buying in Bratislava due to the difference in prices with a view to commuting to work?

Apologies if it sounds like I'm asking you to do my homework but I'm researching everything in Eastern europe at the moment and just trying to get a handle on some genuine info/opinions from different places as opposed to estate agent pinch-of-salt bullsh*t.
 
Just a comment - I am genuinely surprised at the interest in Bratislava! I know the Bratislava-Vienna area very well. All the Viennese/Austrians I know wouldn't dream of living in Bratislava or Slovakia - fine to visit on a Sunday for shopping or as a quick day out with guests, etc. but it is very much looked down on as a city (however right or wrong they may be). I myself would dread the thought of living in Bratislava. The old town is nice enough to visit for a couple of hours but the rest of the city is dull and unappealing. If I go there now, it is usually with visitors who want to see it and no-one ever seems to be impressed -the high-point of any visit to Bratislava is always the return to Austria!
 
Thanks Schoko, it's good to get all round views. Can you tell us anything else that could help our investment decisions - are you from around the area originally? Have you noticed any significant changes in the city in the past 3 years?

Their GDP per capita growth figures are pretty good (according to the Economist), the population appears to be on the increase, they have a good tax regime and the hype is that their economy is similar to Ireland 10 or 15 years ago. Something must be going on there - I'm just trying to figure out what that something is...
 
Below is the march edition of a newsletter that I have signed for.
I know that local knowledge is good but I sometimes think that it can be biased. There are a lot of people in Dublin (and Cork) who would tell you not to buy north of the river but it is sometimes a mistake to take local bias in to consideration.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andras Patkai" <info@blavablava.sk>

Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:49 PM
Subject: Bratislava Property Newsletter - Mar 20, 2006 - The Ballymore Area


>
> Bratislava Property Newsletter
>
> March 20, 2006
>
> The Ballymore Area
>
> What is the city going to look like around the Eurovea waterfront development? The area is commonly referred to as "The Ballymore area." It is interesting to look into what is expected in its immediate neighborhood, as well as across the river, by 2010.
>
> Ballymore advertises its project as "Central Europe's most sophisticated mixed-use riverside development." with "Over 200,000 sqm of corporate offices, retail galleria, hotel, casino, multi-plex cinema, riverside apartments and waterfront park." The city is expecting 150 shops, a 200-bed 5-star hotel, 23,000 m2 of office phase in the first phase (with 87,000 m2 office planned for the 2nd phase), and 250 Danube apartments there.
>
> With the completion of the Apollo Bridge in Sept 2005, the fifth bridge over the Danube, the vast areas on both sides of the river in this absolutely central location suddenly became accessible for development, where the standard was set by this beautiful state-of-the-art bridge. The Capital City claims: "Contemporary strategic investments in Bratislava are now being focused on the Danube River banks. The main bus and railway stations will also soon undergo substantial changes."
>
> There are major plans submitted regarding high-rise residential and commercial buildings, as this is the area (on the north bank of the Danube) specifically zoned for skyscrapers in Bratislava, where the maximum height allowed is 125 meters. The neighboring Old Town only allows for 19.5 meters, that is 5 floors plus roof. One developer has already received permits to construct 8-10-floor residential and office buildings, 10-12 city blocks in all.
>
> There are plots for sale, along with planning permit. For example one residential developer has received permission to build 75,000 m2 sellable floor space according to current plan, however, is redesigning in order to make it 100,000 m2, will be ready Aug-Sept 2006. Currently there are 204 units in four buildings, where smaller investor-friendly apartments, 1-beds, 2-beds are planned. They will be ready to sell off-plan by Aug 2007, early 2008, and the buildings will be completed in 2010. Construction costs are estimated at 650-700 mln SKK (17.5-19 mln EUR), the builder will be Skanska and/or Strabag. Prices would be 48,000 Sk (1300 EUR) /m2 + 19% VAT. They would prefer to sell the whole project off-plan to a single investor. They also need an investor for a hotel in same location, for an advance contract with hotel improves developer's position with the banks. This is just an typical example of what is happening behind the scenes in this newly created administrative and commercial center of Bratislava (Central Business District). Send an email to info@blavablava.sk for more info.
>
> HB Reavis is building the new bus station in Nivy. J&T Global is planning 3 further 100 meter-tall towers around Tower 115 (Press Center), the tallest building in the city.
>
> With regard to the municipal plan, the city also puts great emphasis on a new all-city center situated on the right bank of the Danube, opposite the Ballymore investment, where a state-of-the-art multi-purpose hall seating 12,000 people is envisaged. This will primarily be an area of office buildings to take advantage of the superb Danube views and excellent transportation along the motorway connecting the airport and Eastern Slovakia with Austria, the Czech Republic, and Hungary. It is also just across the river from the city center, so residents and employees in the high-rise buildings will enjoy the classical Castle view. This is where the Vienna Park Apartments are located, the first residential and commercial project to begin sales in this new business district. http://blavablava.sk/vienna.htm The ground-breaking venture on the right/south side of the river was the successful Aupark shopping-entertainment mall, the largest and most successful regional shopping center in Bratislava, with a guaranteed property return of 7.75%, which is being expanded by HB Reavis with an investment of 54 mln EUR. There are already a number of A-class office buildings along Einsteinova Street, where the Digital Park, opposite Aupark Mall, will be one of the most prominent points of attraction for commercial space. www.digitalpark.sk.
>
> You can still reserve residential or commercial space through CE Invest in these riverbank developments, where the city will never be the same again. We will send you visualizations of what the district will look like by 2010, from the city planning office, upon request.
>
> Looking forward to hearing from you personally,
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Andras Patkai
>
> CE Invest s.r.o.
> Real Estate Investments
> Michalska 3
> 811 01 Bratislava
> Tel: +421 2 5464 5436
> Fax: +421 2 5464 5438
> info@blavablava.sk
> www.blavablava.sk
>
 
Hi Sue
Im leaving for Bratislava in a few weeks to see the city and look at property opportunities and would be interested to hear what you've seen and what your impression was having wafted through the agents spiel and seen the sites. Any advice would be apppreciated.

Hi,
I'm going out to Bratislava next week for a few days to look at some properties. I have been receiving stuff from various agents out there if you want I can give you some valid links. Prices range anything from 50K upwards however for new builds you're prob looking at 100k ish for 2 bed reasonable size property. Stare Mesto is the most central area and seems to be popular with locals and tourists. I'll probably know more after I get back. I've been told that the buying process can be difficult but I haven't experienced that yet.
 
Eurovea will only be released for sale once completed. At least that is Ballymore's plan at the moment. Prices therefore will be set in line with the top end market values at that time. If it was released today, it would start somewhere from 3,000 euro + VAT /m2, more for best units. Similar with River Park, but that one may be released a little earlier, maybe late 2006 or early 2007. Neither of the developers needs any pre-sales and they will both wait to get higher prices still, later on. Don't expect any rental returns on these though, way too expensive to get anymore than 3% gross yields or so. Also will need to be mostly sold abroad... nearly 700 high end flats (in the 2 projects together) at these prices are impossible to sell locally. Not all the wealthy locals want to buy a flat there (though some will). Location is good of course, on the edge of the centre, from each side.
 
Does anyone know whether investing in Petrzalka is a good idea. I know it is full of communist apartments but I believe it is now up and coming. Anyone have any comments about this?
 
Hmm, up and coming? Most locals still say 'anywhere but Petrzalka' when considering moving to a new home. Petrzalka is even less popular than Dolne Hony, P. Biskupice, Dubravka (and those are pretty much at the bottom of the areas people want to live). Of course that's why it's also the cheapest area in Bratislava - new build flats in Petrzalka cost 800-1,100 euro/m2 + VAT. That's not a good reason to think it's up and coming though, it's cheap because people who can chose living elsewhere do not go to Petrzalka.
 
The countryside around Bratislava is stunning, especially the drive through the nearby Austrian border. Bratislava city itself is ringed by Ballymun type developments. On a recent midweek flight back from Bratislava I was struck by the amount of young people leaving through the airport coming to Ireland. I'm just wondering who will be left to purchase/rent these new developments?
 
Myself and a friend stayed overnight in Bratislava en route from Budapest to Prague. We nearly got mugged on arrival in the train station and faced police intimidation the next day. We would not return as crime is rampant. For safety we stayed in The Carlton and the only other people there were Japanese. There is no employment for young people and no social welfare until they are 25. The trip was August 2006.
 
Myself and a friend stayed overnight in Bratislava en route from Budapest to Prague. We nearly got mugged on arrival in the train station and faced police intimidation the next day. We would not return as crime is rampant. For safety we stayed in The Carlton and the only other people there were Japanese. There is no employment for young people and no social welfare until they are 25. The trip was August 2006.

Sounds pleasant. Was it a gang of children who attacked you like in the Quentin Tarantino film Hostel? 2 American students had a terrible time there, needless to say i dont think they would invest in an apartment in Bratilsava after that.
 
Summer, your ignorant comments only prove how little clue you have. I suggest you don't invest anywhere overseas as with that attitude you won't get many friends in any country. Slovakia and Bratislava have one of the lowest crime rates in Europe. It's perfectly safe and infinitely safer than Dublin or London. As far as your silly comment about employment - Bratislava has just 3.5% unemployment - anyone who wants to work can find a job, and wages are not bad, much higher than national average.
 
Are there any ski-resorts near to the Bratislava area and if so can anyone guide me as to what is a realistic price per square metre to be paying?
 
Summer, your ignorant comments only prove how little clue you have. I suggest you don't invest anywhere overseas as with that attitude you won't get many friends in any country. Slovakia and Bratislava have one of the lowest crime rates in Europe. It's perfectly safe and infinitely safer than Dublin or London. As far as your silly comment about employment - Bratislava has just 3.5% unemployment - anyone who wants to work can find a job, and wages are not bad, much higher than national average.

My comments are based on what we experienced and other peoples opinion (including Slovakian) who had also been to Bratislava. When the country was split in 1993 the Czech Republic was where all the industry was based and Slovakia was (and still is) rural. 3.5% unemployment could well be correct, most people leave if they cannot find employment.. We were tourists not investors so I have no need to talk up or down the country. The facts are as tourist I would not return again.
 
Icecool - as an aside the film hostel was actually filmed in Czech Rep, although supposed to be set in Slovakia - the film was not at all well received in Slovakia!!!!

I know Bratislava very well and have felt for some time that it had amazing potential - but its proximity to Vienna means that prices will always be relative to prices there - I can't see how prices in Bratislava will ever surpass Vienna. Therefore entry levels in Bratislava are v important - prices can only go so high!!! Difficult to find good value there......
Petrzalka is acre on acre of communist blocks with many of the social problems one would expect - can't see how this is a viable investment. Only plus is that it is Vienna side of the river...Cheap does not equate to good value!!!!
 
hey guys,
I'm one of the Slovakians living in ireland at the moment, working here as an architect in Dublin.If you want any help or information about Slovakian Properties you can contact me on my email and we can eventually arrange an appointment.I was living in Bratislava for 7 years, have many contacts there and im actually thinking about investing in Slovakia as well, so Im full of information about prices and all the other helpfull facts.

email: mkupcik@yahoo.com
 
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