Boycott of School Buses

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ubiquitous

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Does anyone else think that the President of the National Parents Council - Post Primary, Eleanor Petrie, was totally out of order on Morning Ireland this morning in calling for a 100% boycott of school buses unless they are fitted by seatbelts by September?

While this week's tragedy in Meath is truly shocking, the fact remains that over 140,000 kids travel on school buses every day and that their overall safety record is statistically excellent. Although I don't have figures, I suspect that many more children die or are seriously injured in car journeys to and from school than on school buses. If school buses are now abandoned en masse (as seems to be inevitable as it is impossible to fit seatbelts on all buses within a few months) surely the increased car traffic will entail further child casualties?

In any event, most of the accidents that do happen seem to arise as children are hit by other traffic as they board their bus or after they disembark, so seatbelts will unfortunately do nothing in these cases.
 
Seems like a cynical manipulation of an unfortunate tragedy alright.

On a related issue - how many parents are actually members of the NPC? I'm always curious as to how organisations such as the NPC can purport to represent the views of most or all individuals in a particular group and even obtain official recognition from the Government as doing so.
 
ubiquitous said:
Does anyone else think that the President of the National Parents Council - Post Primary, Eleanor Petrie, was totally out of order on Morning Ireland this morning in calling for a 100% boycott of school buses unless they are fitted by seatbelts by September?.
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Yes.

Knee jerk reaction to a tragedy without looking at the bigger picture.
 
Just shows the power of the media. And the amazing ability of the masses to react to suggestion. I just wonder if it came back in the reports that more would have been killed if there were seatbelts on the bus, would the npc then call for a boycott of school buses with seatbelts?
 
Gabriel said:
Knee jerk reaction to a tragedy without looking at the bigger picture.
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the timing might be poor but surely this is a no-brainer. if belts were fitted from new it wouldnt add more than a few hundred euro to the cost of each bus. the gov policy of covering their asses by getting consultant reports about every little thing before they make a decision is ridiculous
 
I'm not so sure. The cost of each seatbelt (including fitting) is estimated in todays Indo @ €700 per seatbelt. If 100,000 seatbelts have to be fitted this will therefore cost €70 million. Quite apart from the doubtful economics of investing substantial funds in already clapped-out vehicles, the cost will undoubtedly cause a serious hike in charges for school bus services (many of which are operated by the private sector). More and more parents will then be motivated to drive their children to school in their own cars. The increased traffic can reasonably be expected to generate corresponding increases in accidents, leading to more fatalities and injuries.

Quite apart from that, unless you employ marshals on the buses, there is no guarantee that the seatbelts will actually be used.
 
eamonn66 said:
the timing might be poor but surely this is a no-brainer.
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Why?

How many school children deaths have been caused by lack of seatbelts on school buses in the last 30 years?

How many school children deaths have taken place in cars?...with seatbelts?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for seatbelts on buses. One death is too many. That part is a no brainer.

The comments, however, from Eleanor Petrie are not helpful.

Incidentally, iIf there were no enquiries taking place there'd be uproar.
 
Presumably the NPC are jumping the gun on this anyway since, in the absence of an authoritative/extensive report on the accident, there is nothing to say that seatbelts would have helped to reduce the number of fatalaties of casualties?
 
I don't know if seat belts would have made any difference in this case. What I do know is that I'm sick of Government Ministers telling us what is and isn't "possible" for them to achieve, while at the same time telling us what the rest of us "have to do".

If I drive ONE Journey with ONE child that isn't wearing a seatbelt I can get penalty points and a fine. The state can drive thousands of unrestrained kids around the country twice a day without any accountability.

The list of double standards that the state imposes to distinguish itself from the public gets longer and longer.

-Rd
 
daltonr said:
I don't know if seat belts would have made any difference in this case. What I do know is that I'm sick of Government Ministers telling us what is and isn't "possible" for them to achieve, while at the same time telling us what the rest of us "have to do".

If I drive ONE Journey with ONE child that isn't wearing a seatbelt I can get penalty points and a fine. The state can drive thousands of unrestrained kids around the country twice a day without any accountability.

The list of double standards that the state imposes to distinguish itself from the public gets longer and longer.

-Rd
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Applying that logic one could argue that individuals should have to apply for public service vehicle licenses if the same rules are to apply across the board.
 
Don't want to go too far off topic but the NPC should concentrate in the immediate on the overall lack of safety on school buses whilst allowing a realistic deadline for safety belts.

I sit outside 2 schools each day and observe the following dreadful safety issues:

1. Children crammed onto buses (some as old as 1981), sometimes 3 to a seat and many also left standing or sitting on the steps of the buses.

2. I have seen on many occasions (girls especially) sitting on the dashboard chatting to the driver with their backs to the windscreen. On one particular sunny day some were also standing on the steps of the bus with the doors open. Imagine the outcome in the event of an accident. Out of curiosity the day after this dreadful accident I checked to see if this situation had changed and noted that out of 5 buses that passed me in traffic 3 of them still had girls sitting in the same spot.

This problem does not apply to just one bus company but many.

3. I know of one secondary school who's Parents' Committee has constantly requested a lollipop person since last September because of the serious risks to the children rushing across a busy road to get to their bus because the drivers won't allow enough time for the children to reach them. Despite many requests to the drivers to wait, the County Council to provide same the situation is still the same a full school term later and no mention of what happens next September.

4. Some years ago a child fell out the open door of a local school bus when it was going around a roundabout and he broke his arm. Luckily enough there was no other vehicle nearby or the consequences could have been a lot worse.

5. Many years ago my son's school bus stopped on the M50 and put the children off because the driver wanted to go and get petrol.

6. Many of the girls are smoking on these buses and no one does anything about it.

These are just some of the issues that immediately spring to mind.

One would have to wonder to what the extent the fares will increase if the belts are added and the older buses replaced. Will the parents pay/be able to afford the increased fares?

My daughter maintains that with their 2 stone/3 stone school bags, P.E. gear, art portfolio etc. that the kids won't bother with the belts and will the drivers be able to monitor this? Even if they did check them before taking off the kids will invariably open them for comfort sake when they have so much luggage.
 
Hundreds of children travel to school on Dublin Bus scheduled services every day so the next arguement could be that they're entitled to seatbelts too. And as a regular bus user myself am I not entitled to one also?

It is regrettable that it takes a tragedy like this weeks to open up a debate like this.

Yet less than a month ago a Dublin Bus 78A with passengers on board hit and destroyed a bus shelter opposite Frawleys in Thomas Street. Thankfully there were no injuries but I don't think that even got a mention in the media.
 
Sue Ellen said:
Don't want to go too far off topic but the NPC should concentrate in the immediate on the overall lack of safety on school buses whilst allowing a realistic deadline for safety belts.

I sit outside 2 schools each day and observe the following dreadful safety issues:

1. Children crammed onto buses (some as old as 1981), sometimes 3 to a seat and many also left standing or sitting on the steps of the buses.

2. I have seen on many occasions (girls especially) sitting on the dashboard chatting to the driver with their backs to the windscreen. On one particular sunny day some were also standing on the steps of the bus with the doors open. Imagine the outcome in the event of an accident. Out of curiosity the day after this dreadful accident I checked to see if this situation had changed and noted that out of 5 buses that passed me in traffic 3 of them still had girls sitting in the same spot.

This problem does not apply to just one bus company but many.

3. I know of one secondary school who's Parents' Committee has constantly requested a lollipop person since last September because of the serious risks to the children rushing across a busy road to get to their bus because the drivers won't allow enough time for the children to reach them. Despite many requests to the drivers to wait, the County Council to provide same the situation is still the same a full school term later and no mention of what happens next September.

4. Some years ago a child fell out the open door of a local school bus when it was going around a roundabout and he broke his arm. Luckily enough there was no other vehicle nearby or the consequences could have been a lot worse.

5. Many years ago my son's school bus stopped on the M50 and put the children off because the driver wanted to go and get petrol.

6. Many of the girls are smoking on these buses and no one does anything about it.

These are just some of the issues that immediately spring to mind.
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Did you intervene at all or report any of these incidents to the relevant authorities where appropriate?
 
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On my final stretch of getting to work, I have to drive by a roundabouts and 3 schools. I am always horrified by the number of parents who drop off their children on the roundabout which is just beside one of the schools. (These are primary school kids - some of them are very young - I'm not a great judge but they look no more than 5).

There is always chaos on this particular stretch of road. Accidents are always waiting to happen.

Marion
 
I took the bus to school from 1982 to 1988 and things were exactly the same then. I think the idea that you can expect three 17 yo, with all their school gear, to sit three to a seat is ludicrus (sp), surely the first step is to have at least one seat per child.

FWIW, I agree 100% that ferrying children to school in cars will lead to much more accidents and deaths, but it's hard to be rational when you see 5 girls dead in just one accident.

It's a bit like the governments task force on obesity. They'll do everything except put PE facilities in schools. (I know, off topic)
 
4. Some years ago a child fell out the open door of a local school bus when it was going around a roundabout and he broke his arm. Luckily enough there was no other vehicle nearby or the consequences could have been a lot worse.I know this is slightly off topic but that child was my younger brother who was 13 at the time, the tragedy this week has really hit home to us just how lucky he was. In his case the owner of the bus knew that the bus door was faulty (he had a new bus ordered that was due to arrive the following week) and yet he still packed the kids on the bus, my brother had no seat and was standing when the accident occured.

There actually was another car coming towards him after he fell out the door, he just managed to roll away from it under the bus.....to make matters worse the bus driver never called the police or ambulance, my parents got a phone call from my brothers hysterical friends and brought him to hospital themselves because it was quicker for them to drive than to wait for an ambulance. He was lucky that he just had a broken arm and concussion and some bruised ribs it could have been a lot worse.

Someone really has to start regulating school buses....surely seat belts make sense even if it prevents one death a year??
 
It seems to me that the focus on seatbelts is misplaced and that the NPC aided by the media are trying to get involved in a game of brinkmanship with the government. I think that the age of buses is a red herring also; if they are properly maintained and subject to inspection that should suffice. Three to a seat would seem to me to be the real issue to address when talking about second level students. I think they should be looking at two per seat, no standing, limit bus speeds to 50 or 60 k/ph.
 
michaelm said:
It seems to me that the focus on seatbelts is misplaced and that the NPC aided by the media are trying to get involved in a game of brinkmanship with the government. I think that the age of buses is a red herring also; if they are properly maintained and subject to inspection that should suffice. Three to a seat would seem to me to be the real issue to address when talking about second level students. I think they should be looking at two per seat, no standing, limit bus speeds to 50 or 60 k/ph.
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Good post. Exactly what should be done.
 
Would I be mistaken in saying that no cause has yet been established for the crash so to start saying that either seatbelts, more modern vehicles or fewer passengers might have helped to mitigate the fatalities/casualties is premature?
 
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