Boss charging employees for training?

[MugsGame]

we've been told that these deductions for training are provided for in the contract of employment

Quite the opposite. An employer can't vary existing terms and conditions retrospectively and expect them to take effect without some negotiation.

 

[Humpback]

Quite the opposite. An employer can't vary existing terms and conditions retrospectively and expect them to take effect without some negotiation.

This is the question I've been asking. We haven't been told how these terms and conditions got into the contracts in the first place, particularly for existing employees.

Can thebiz clarify when these terms were introduced to the contract? And how it was done?

 

[thebiz]

The chosen method of delivery was to send everyone a group mail stating that there was changes made to the employee handbook.
The hand book was attached with the said changes.

 

[ajapale]

Hi TheBiz,

Im convinced that this is an unenforceable "wheeze" on behalf of this employer.

Is the company in the Republic of Ireland?
Are you an employee (as opposed to a self employed contractor) of the company?
Do you have a contract of employment?
What, if anything, does it (the contract) say about Training and associated costs?
Is such training voluntary or compulsory?
Is such training of a highly complex technical nature or is it very expensive?

Im not sure what the status of an "Employees' Handbook" is.

I can see a case whereby an employer might pay for an Executive MBA and that the employee would sign a document undertaking to refund the costs should they leave within a specified time frame.

aj

 

[Humpback]

Im not sure what the status of an "Employees' Handbook" is.

I know that the terms of an employment contract that I had with an Irish company previously stated that the terms of my employment were according to said contract, and the contents of the employee handbook - which I was given to read prior to signing the contract.

I presume this is normal.

 

[shipibo]

TB,

You have not signed any contracts stipulating that all rules in the Company Handbook are added with your approval ??

If not, your Terms and Conditions supercede this book.

I assume if you leave, he will take charges out of your last pay packet, you will have to go to arbitration to get monies back, stating custom and practice in company previously was no one paid for training.

As a group, you should send a letter to boss stating you do not accept this amendment to the handbook.

Check out your issue with

http://www.flac.ie

 

[ajapale]

Hi Crumb,

Thanks for the Free Legal Aid link, I never realised that they were a resource for employment law cases. (and also it would seem debt management).

I found [broken link removed] a uk employment website, it deals with the principles and best practice of employee deductions for training.

DEDUCTION FROM WAGES

Employers who want to make a deduction from wages should ensure that they do so lawfully.

The following is a summary of the current legal position (in the UK):
An employer cannot legally make a deduction from the wages or salary of an worker unless the deduction satisfies one of the following conditions:

• The deduction is authorised by statute (for example PAYE); OR
• The deduction has been authorised by the worker’s contract provided that the worker has been given a written copy of the relevant terms or a written explanation of them before the deduction is made and the worker has signed the contract ; OR
• The worker has given prior consent to the deduction, by signing an agreement to the deduction BEFORE the making of the deduction and BEFORE the event that was the cause of the deduction occurred.

Lloyds would advise that in the event that you wish to make ANY DEDUCTION from a workers wages that it is always best practice to draft a separate agreement from the contract of employment to allow for this, to ensure that there is no ambiguity. This would also allow for a ‘sliding scale’ of deductions to be made over a period of time.

A good example would be where you want to deduct training costs - although this may be covered in a general deductions clause in your contracts of employment, to have a separate agreement that is signed is always better in relation to proving that the deduction is not unlawful, it ensures that the worker has signed an agreement to the express deduction and it allows you to specify what percentage of the training cost will be deducted if the employee was to leave your employment. For example, a larger percentage of the total cost would be deducted if they leave 1 month after receiving the training to a lesser percentage if they leave 12 months after the training.

So if I were an employer intent on recovering costs associated with training from departing employees I would A) cover this in a general deductions clause in the contract of employment and B) have a separate agreement that is signed by the employee which explicitly states the deduction amount to ensure there is no ambigutiy.

aj

 

[lff12]

I know that the terms of an employment contract that I had with an Irish company previously stated that the terms of my employment were according to said contract, and the contents of the employee handbook - which I was given to read prior to signing the contract.

I presume this is normal.

No its not.

A company I once worked for asked us to change our sick leave arrangement and working day length - in return they gave us each an additional 5 days vacation a year. They reissued all our contracts, and everybody was expected to sign them, which of course, we did, since almost everybody was happy to get an extra week off.

They cannot write this into your contracts retrospectively. Unless you actually have signed the new contracts, then it is not binding.

However I know of a handful of companies in Dublin and Cork who do this very underhand practice but apply it to induction training. Its mostly used to discourage people from working in their companies as a temp measure until "something better comes along." If they were good employers they wouldn't need to twist employees arms in this way.

I think its fairly reasonable for an employer to want to get back any externally billed training for an employee who leaves within a specified time. Most employers do this for anything paid for in the last 3 months - sometimes more. But to look for initial training costs back is unreasonable since what they are doing is expecting the next generation of replacements to effectively pay for their own training or stay in the job longer.