Boss charging employees for training?

T

thebiz

Registered User
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Hi

Background: Small Irish company ~30 people.
Key people are leaving because it's a shambles.
The boss makes every decision, management is non existant....

The boss has put into the employee handbook that,

If you leave you will be required to pay for any training you recieved in the previous 12 months.

This is a ploy to stop his fed up workforce leaving his circus.

Can he do this??

Thanks
 
I believe so. Is that one of the things people complain about when working for Ryan Air.

Towger
 
Don't see why not. There's nothing illegal about it, and since its in the contract up front, people who don't like the condition don't have to sign the contract.
 
ronan_d_john said:
Don't see why not. There's nothing illegal about it, and since its in the contract up front, people who don't like the condition don't have to sign the contract.
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It's not inthe contract for the people who already work there. Does that change anything?
 
happens in the company I work for, they make you pay for a certain percentage of the course if you leave within 12 months of completing
 
thebiz said:
It's not inthe contract for the people who already work there. Does that change anything?
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I don't think so. Unless there is some element of unionised/collective bargaining in force in that workplace that might be relevant in this context. Otherwise each new employee is subject to the terms & conditions of the contract of employment which they individually negotiate and to which they agree at the start as long as these don't attempt to abrogate any statutory rights (which would be illegal).
 
thebiz said:
If you leave you will be required to pay for any training you recieved in the previous 12 months.

This is a ploy to stop his fed up workforce leaving his circus.
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You mean stuff like clown and lion tamer school tuition fees? :confused:
 
ClubMan said:
You mean stuff like clown and lion tamer school tuition fees? :confused:
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Might be handy in here...

ClubMan said:
I don't think so. Unless there is some element of unionised/collective bargaining in force in that workplace that might be relevant in this context. Otherwise each new employee is subject to the terms & conditions of the contract of employment which they individually negotiate and to which they agree at the start as long as these don't attempt to abrogate any statutory rights (which would be illegal).
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So I agreed a contract 12 months ago.
This changes the Terms now - should I have the right to renegociate because of these changes?

Can I refuse training on the grounds that it could put me in financial red?
 
thebiz said:
It's not inthe contract for the people who already work there. Does that change anything?
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Unlikely (as stated somewhat obtusely by Clubman). Basically the employment contract will be normally the same for all employees, so it will apply for existing as well as new employees.

Now, if the employment contract (the employee handbook) was changed while the existing employees were there, and this condition was added in, it remains to be seen if they were clearly notified of such a change, and what if anything they said about this being implemented at the time.
 
If you leave you will be required to pay for any training you recieved in the previous 12 months.
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How does the employer propose to enforce payment for any training? As far as I know he cant simply deduct it from wages without your consent.

What is the nature of the training? Is it health and safety training? Is it training on how to operate equipment? Is it training which is specific to employees trade or profession? Is the training compulsory? Is the training specific to this company?

aj
 
ajapale said:
How does the employer propose to enforce payment for any training? As far as I know he cant simply deduct it from wages without your consent.
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The terms & conditions of the original or modified contract could contain something covering the deduction of such amounts. I know that my contract allows the employer to deduct any mitaken overpayments of wages should they arise.
 
ajapale said:
How does the employer propose to enforce payment for any training? As far as I know he cant simply deduct it from wages without your consent.
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I'm certain he has not tought about how he's actually going to charge - as i;ve said it's a fear tatic.

What is the nature of the training?
Is it health and safety training? Is it training on how to operate equipment?
It's ANY training be it Equipment operating or Health and Safety. He's very vague.

Is it training which is specific to employees trade or profession?
Some of it wil be specific to the industry but not to the company.

Is the training compulsory? Is the training specific to this company?
I suppose it's compulsory in order to be qualified to do a task.
 
The employer has no way of recovering these vague/arbitrary training charges without your consent.
aj
 
ajapale said:
The employer has no way of recovering these vague/arbitrary training charges without your consent.
aj
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It's in their employee handbook/employment contract from what we've been told above, and therefore he already has the consent of the employees. I would expect that deductions from payroll would be an easy way of recovering these charges.
 
ronan_d_john said:
It's in their employee handbook/employment contract from what we've been told above, and therefore he already has the consent of the employees. I would expect that deductions from payroll would be an easy way of recovering these charges.
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he already has the consent of the employees

I'm not sure how telling the employeese that this is going to be the way equates to having their concent.
 
from oasis

The gives all employees in Ireland a right to a pay slip which will show the gross wage and details of all deductions. A pay slip is essentially a statement in writing from the employer to the employee that outlines the total pay before tax and all details of any deductions from pay. Your right to a pay slip is set down in of this Act. You can
Deductions from pay

An employer may not make deductions from your wages unless:
  • They are required by law, for example, PAYE and (PRSI),
  • They are provided for in the contract of employment, for example occupational pension contributions.
  • They are made with your written consent, for example, trade union subscriptions
  • They are to recover an overpayment of wages or expenses
  • They are required by a court order, for example, an attachment of earnings order in a family law case
  • They arise due to your being on strike
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This employer will not be able to make deductions from his employees wages for vague and ill defined training without their written consent.

Incidently, I assume the company is not unionised?
aj
 
ajapale said:
from oasis
[/list]This employer will not be able to make deductions from his employees wages for vague and ill defined training without their written consent.

aj
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In the company I work for we have to sign a contract when we start a course accepting that we will have to pay a portion if we leave, so unless they have this in written with your signature, i wouldnt think they could do this.
 
ajapale said:
This employer will not be able to make deductions from his employees wages for vague and ill defined training without their written consent.
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ajapale - see the 2nd point in your quotation there

An employer may not make deductions from your wages unless:...... They are provided for in the contract of employment
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And we've been told that these deductions for training are provided for in the contract of employment.

I think the focus here should be on how the employer added this condition in to the contract of employment, how this was communicated to the employees, and what if anything they did to either prevent it being put into the contract, or what alternative benefits/payback they received from the employer in exchange for a change in the contract of employment.
 
My point is that the proposed deductions are arbitrary and ill defined.

The only way I can see an employer being able to recover costs through payroll deductions in this circumstance is (as momo pointed out) that the employee explicitly signs for each course for a specified amount.

The leglislation is designed to protect employees from "wheezes" like this. I dont think that the OP has anything to worry about.

I might be wrong but I think that employers have a statutory duty to provide Health and Safety training and that the employer must bear the cost of such training.

aj
 
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