Bord Gais enters the domestic electricity market

callybags said:
.....There is only one producer of electricity in the country- ESB Networks (I am leaving out the minimal amount sold into the national grid), who then sell it on to ESB or Bord Gais.....
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Incorrect. ESB Networks do not generate electricity.They distribute it around the country via overhead lines in rural areas and underground cables in urban centres. They also maintain the networks and provide meter reading services to all suppliers. So, for instance, if you switch to Bord Gais or Airtricity, ESB Networks will still be reading your meter and will still call out to you to fix the fault if your lights go out. Problems with lots of estimated bills? Whatever the reason may be, switching supplier will not fix it. My advice to anyone with frequent estimates is to read your meter on a regular basis and advise your supplier be it ESB, Bord Gais or Airtricity. They will all be happy to amend your bill.

ESB Power Generation used to have a monopoly of power generation but those days are long gone. They now have less than 50% of the total market share of electricity generation. The rest is made up of independent power producers of which there are many, big and small. Have a look at the Eirgrid website if you want details of who they are (www.eirgrid.com). One of them is obviously Airtricity with their significant number of windfarms. Airtricity is both a generator and a supplier. Bord Gais will also have this dual role when they complete the building of their electricity generating plant in Whitegate, County Cork.

All electricity generated goes into one virtual "pool" from which the various suppliers on the island, north and south, but their electricity to sell on to their customers. (This is the Single Electricity Market and it is a world first in that it spans two separate political jurisdictions).

By all means go to Airtricity if you like their green offering. It will help I'm sure in developing their wind generation portfolio. But don't think that because you are an Airtricity customer the electricity that comes down the wires to your house is generated purely from wind. Like for every other customer it's generated from a mix of sources. You are getting the very same mix of generated electricity as your non-green neighbour.

Regards,

Fnergg
 
callybags said:
Could anyone explain the following:

1. There is only one producer of electricity in the country- ESB Networks (I am leaving out the minimal amount sold into the national grid), who then sell it on to ESB or Bord Gais.

2. ESB charge us €1 for one unit of this electricity. (trying to keep this as simple as possible)

3. Bord Gais say they will charge us 90 cent for the same unit.

4. I assume Bord Gais will make a profit so they must be buying it from ESB Networks at say 80 cent.

5. ESB up till now have bought 100% of the electricity from Networks so I would presume they get it even cheaper. Say 70cent.

6. ESB are therefore making a profit of 30% on their selling price which is set by the regulator.

a) Is this not scandalous that the regulator would facilitate these profits for the ESB?
b) Will the regulator not be tasked with setting the price that Bord Gais charges for the electricity and, if so, how can BG give a guarantee of always being lower than the ESB?

Hope this is not too rambling but it's things like this that keep me awake at night :)
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1) Your initial assertion is wrong. EDF and several other European energy concerns own power stations in Ireland... Bord Gais is actually building it's own in East Cork due online next February.

2-6) I'm afraid this is rambling slightly...

However...

a) It is absolutely scandalous that the Regulators can set a price that artificially inflates the cost to consumers. I can sort of understand why they did it... that is, to promote competition... but surely a laissez fair approach would be far more appropriate in a 'liberal democracy'.

b) Bord Gais will be able to set whatever price they like (and to answer a couple of other points above - they guarantee a 10% lower cost than ESB in year one but will not be raising their prices to allow for a 5% discount in years 2 and 3... they will simply guarantee this level of discount with regard to whatever ESB do to their prices.)



On a side note... I'm currently listening to 'The Last Word'... great to hear the Regulator has allowed individuals to 'sell back' surplus energy to the grid when generating at home. It might take time to have an impact but it's still good news.

Next we need to see Government grants for wind turbines and PV panels for the home to go along with the grants for solar hot water systems currently available!


.
 
Thinking of switching to BG, but can't see anything on their site regarding 'nightsaver'. Does anybody know if BG will be offering their discount on both the day and night units, or is the 10% offer only applicable to the standard domestic tariff?

Thanks in advance :)

Dave
 
Toby said:
Have to laugh at the following from the Big Switch site terms and conditions

"In accessing the Site, the User accepts that information messages and electronic mail passing over the Internet may not be free from interference by third parties. Consequently, Bord Gáis cannot guarantee the privacy or confidentiality of any information relating to the User passing over the Internet"

Doesn't really make me feel too good about giving them my bank details - I would have thought they have to provide adequate security on their site?
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No need to worry, the site is secure. It has a secure https: web address and a little padlock symbol at the bottom right of your browser.
 
dscanlon said:
Thinking of switching to BG, but can't see anything on their site regarding 'nightsaver'. Does anybody know if BG will be offering their discount on both the day and night units, or is the 10% offer only applicable to the standard domestic tariff? Dave
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Yes they will.

ESB Nightsaver prices (VAT incl) : Day: 19.89c Night: 9.84c

BGE Standard Nightsaver: Day: 17.90c Night: 8.86c

BGE with Direct Debit or Natural Gas: Day: 17.5c Night: 8.66c

BGE with Direct Debit and NAtural Gas: Day: 17.10c Night: 8.46c

Regards,

Fnergg
 
has anyone else had problems trying to switch online?


This is the address on the website for switching but it keeps asking for a network username and password.
This has never come up for me on any other sites i have visited..
 
Just for awareness, Standing charges are not discounted with bord gais... so we may not see a straight 14% discount compared to ESB bill... discount is only on unit charge.
 
1. It does state that Bord Gais charge
Disconnection fee €97.61 inc VAT
While on the website it is under the title of Overdue accounts & arrears
one can presume that this would also apply if you decide to switch back to ESB or Airtricity.
Does anyone know at what time night charges start?
Does anyone know why there were different types of meters showing? One with 24hours and one with day an night reading? Our meter only has one line. Does that mean that the units are charged at the same rate?
We only bought our house 1.5 y ago. Our bills are humongous! Last couple of months was extremely careful and switching everything off. Not even a porch light on at night. Yet the bills are still huge (I am talking 700e) Could there be a problem with the meter? Had anyone heard of similar situation? I called ESB but they wouldnt come out. They say some of our appliances must be faulty.
 
tablesalt said:
1. It does state that Bord Gais charge
Disconnection fee €97.61 inc VAT
While on the website it is under the title of Overdue accounts & arrears
one can presume that this would also apply if you decide to switch back to ESB or Airtricity.
Does anyone know at what time night charges start?
Does anyone know why there were different types of meters showing? One with 24hours and one with day an night reading? Our meter only has one line. Does that mean that the units are charged at the same rate?
We only bought our house 1.5 y ago. Our bills are humongous! Last couple of months was extremely careful and switching everything off. Not even a porch light on at night. Yet the bills are still huge (I am talking 700e) Could there be a problem with the meter? Had anyone heard of similar situation? I called ESB but they wouldnt come out. They say some of our appliances must be faulty.
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The €97.61 fee will only apply if you want a physical disconnection of supply to your house. All suppliers charge this because they are charged this cost by ESB Networks and they then have to pass it on to the customer. If you want to switch back to ESB or to Airtricity there is no charge.

You have a standard 24 hour meter. All units are charged at the same price. Some customers have Nightsaver meters whereby the electricity consumed after 11pm and before 8am (Midnight to 9am in summer) are charged at half price. The downside is that the Standing Charge increases significantly. It suits very few people. Unless you can use at least 4 units between those hours every night throughout the year you will not get any benefit and you could be losing money. Ideal for guest-houses and the like but not for your typical family home.

Your meter isn't faulty. I have written elsewhere on this forum about the reliability of electricity meters so you can forget about the meter being the cause of your high usage.

Try this: switch every electrical appliance off - lights, radio, etc. Check the meter. The revolving dial should come to a stop after a minute or so. If it doesn't do another check to see if you've forgotton anything. If you haven't and the dial is still revolving merrily around I'd get an electrician to check your installation: there may be a wiring fault somewhere.

If the dial does stop as it should then it's purely a usage issue. Take a meter reading every day around the same time. This will give you your usage on a day to day basis. Take note of what is being used and pay particular attention to items like plug-in heaters (get rid of them), the hot water tank (do not leave it switched on continuoulsy), the frequency of shower usage (God help you if there are teenagers in the house as they seem to require showers very frequently and spend an eternity in them), the tumbler dryer (use very sparingly), and the washing machine (only use for full loads). I wouldn't worry too much about lights and such. If you have a large screen plasma/LCD TV then that is going to cost you much more than the old type TVs to run.

Other than that, check if any of your bills have been estimated. If they have the next bill based on an actual reading will invariably be for an accumulated usage and will be that much higher as a result.

Regards,

Fnergg
 
Thinking of changing from esb to bg.

On BG web its states that unit charge is 16.75 with BG and 18.61 with ESB. See link below

My last ESB unit charge was 16.40 and that what is says on esb web. That cheaper than BG

which is right or am I missing something?

[broken link removed]

[broken link removed]
 
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esbnoway said:
Thinking of changing from esb to bg.

On BG web its states that unit charge is 16.75 with BG and 18.61 with ESB. See link below

My last ESB unit charge was 16.40 and that what is says on esb web. That cheaper than BG

which is right or am I missing something?

[broken link removed]
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The ESB price is VAT exclusive whereas BGE's includes the VAT.

BGE is cheaper.

Regards,

Fnergg
 
7,500 have switched in the first few days. A very impressive start for a new entrant.

[broken link removed]

I am waiting for my next ESB bill in the coming days and then I will join those switching.
 
fungus said:
...7,500 have switched in the first few days. A very impressive start for a new entrant...
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Yes, BGE have run a very slick campaign. It started with a couple of set-up callers complaining about their ESB bills on Liveline and of course the snowball effect kicked in then and the show ran with the ESB bill issue for two days running. Never mind that there was no attempt at balance - an appalling dereliction of journalistic ethics by Joe Duffy - it achieved the desired effect: get the public riled up about the cost of electricity.

Their country-wide poster campaign started at the same time ("Ireland is ready to switch") and the photographs were very attractive indeed.

It was important too that they launched the campaign as the high winter bills are issuing. There mightn't have been half the hype had they launched in, say, August.

The use of Lucy Kennedy for the TV ads and on their website was another excellent choice: she is sassy and sexy and certainly made me pay attention. Their website is also very well designed and easily navigable.

All in all, a textbook launch. Well done BGE! Good to see another semi-state knocking the socks off the other independent domestic supplier, the British owned Airtricity.

Not that the ESB is worried about all this. It is committed to working with the Regulator to reduce its dominant share of the domestic electricity market. It fully expects to lose hundreds of thousands of customers to Bord Gais and others over the next few years. That is why ESB prices will remain higher than its competitors for the foreseeable future as, otherwise, why would customers bother to switch?

When it is no longer the dominant supplier (probably when it has 50% or less of the customer market) it will have its regulatory restrictions lifted and will then be able to compete on an equal basis and will be able to offer attractive prices. The sooner this happens the better for ESB - and for customers - so it is not in the least bit worried about the current rush to switch. It would be very concerned if it did not happen. It might seem strange that a company is so philosophical about losing customers but that is the price ESB has to pay in the interests of the greater good. It happened in the electricity generating market where ESB reduced its dominance from 100% to just 38% at the present time.

All this of course is masterminded by the Regulator so ESB customers are paying more than they really need to in order to encourage customers to go and in this way real competition will eventually be delivered. At the moment ESB has its hands tied behind its back so that the regulatory targets can be achieved. In that sense, what we are seeing at present is not, of course, real competition but it is still good for customers.

Regards,

Fnergg
 
Well to be fair to ESB, they're no eircom when it comes to being arrogant towards customers. At least not the guys on the ground. The management who recently awarded themselves handsome raises on the basis of their being "a profitable company" (who wouldn't be, when the customer has no choice) are in a different league altogether.
 
I'll be switching myself over the next day or two.

My bills used to be around €90, but last 2 have jumped up to €120/130 figures. 10%/12% is not a lot, but it is better in my pocket than ESBs.

I think if there was any hassle in switching then many wouldn't bother, but the fact that all it takes is a quick electronic form completion with your ESB account number then many will cross over.

I would like to go to AirTricity but BG appears a better deal as they guarantee to save you at least 5% on years 2 & 3 on ESB prices, so even if ESB lower theirs to compete then BG have to lower theirs as well. AirTricity only mention saving 10% on 1st year.
 
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