Bitcoin is not like gold

jman0war

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It's one of the potential benefits of bitcoin.
Imagine if people, say refugees can take their accumulated wealth across boundaries without the ability of x government to seize it?
They could do so by memorizing the password (mnemonic phrase) that unlocks their bitcoin on the blockchain.
They could cross through borders with literally empty pockets.
 

Leo

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Leo you are mistaken here.
If someone funds Wikileaks via a bank transfer, that transaction can be censored or seized.
Yeah, I wasn't suggesting the transactions themselves could be censored or reversed, but Bitcoin is still subject to seizure.
 

jman0war

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Correct, they can't compel the blockchain to give it up, but in search & seizures authorities are successfully seizing bitcoin. So as stated in the linked article, it is resistant to seizure, but it is still subject to such in certain circumstances.
Sure, but those custodial sites that are subject to seizure orders from the country in which they operate are not exactly part of the bitcoin whitepaper.
Those are websites and businesses that just sprang up on their own.
 

Firefly

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It's one of the potential benefits of bitcoin.
Imagine if people, say refugees can take their accumulated wealth across boundaries without the ability of x government to seize it?
They could do so by memorizing the password (mnemonic phrase) that unlocks their bitcoin on the blockchain.
They could cross through borders with literally empty pockets.
Multiple Bitcoin accounts and a few shell companies dotted around the world and your money would be extremely difficult to trace....

I can see why the authorities will go after Bitcoin now....
 
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jman0war

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Andreas Antonopolus took a well meaning question from a member of the audience regarding compliance with the signs posted at Customs, compelling the traveller to declare if they are taking or bringing 10k with them.

He explained that this paradigm is archaic and has limited relevance to global money that is 'cloud based'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZh1-ZqffOw
 

joe sod

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Many bitcoiners are also into gold.
But the scarcity of gold will soon be tested.
They say we are about 20-50 years from mining asteroids.
At that point it is expected that "rare earth" deposits will be found in abundance.
I think I will bet on gold still being rare in 50 years time than on bit coin being the new gold or even being in existence. Harvesting gold from asteroids or deep in ocean's is a whole magnitude of difficulty much greater than hacking into the bit coin source code and changing it. If I were a technologist and given a big budget and a choice I know I would choose cracking into bit coin as being doable, harvesting gold from asteroids as a good Hollywood movie from 1970s.
 

jman0war

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I think I will bet on gold still being rare in 50 years time than on bit coin being the new gold or even being in existence. Harvesting gold from asteroids or deep in ocean's is a whole magnitude of difficulty much greater than hacking into the bit coin source code and changing it. If I were a technologist and given a big budget and a choice I know I would choose cracking into bit coin as being doable, harvesting gold from asteroids as a good Hollywood movie from 1970s.
It doesn't matter if you change bitcoin code, that's what the hard forks do.
What matters is, does anybody else accept your code?

There is a saying in bitcoin: Don't Trust, Verify.
Bitcoiners that run Full Nodes (not mining) verify transactions.
If your transaction does not compute, it's dropped.
 

joe sod

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It doesn't matter if you change bitcoin code, that's what the hard forks do.
What matters is, does anybody else accept your code?

There is a saying in bitcoin: Don't Trust, Verify.
Bitcoiners that run Full Nodes (not mining) verify transactions.
If your transaction does not compute, it's dropped.
Ive done a bit of programming back in the day and bitcoin at the end of the day is just code that was created by a human, there was an arbitrary limit when the code was originally written that set the limit at 21 million bitcoins. That is an arbitrary limit that can be changed, surely the creators of bitcoin still have access to their code. When enough resources are thrown at something all unbreakable codes can be broken, remember enigma
Gold is extremely rare even in the universe and humans cannot create gold like they can with bitcoin. Do you not think a bit far fetched to suggest that gold will become cheap because we will be able to harvest it from asteroids but breaking the bitcoin code is too difficult so it will replace gold ..... good luck with that
 

jman0war

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257
Ive done a bit of programming back in the day and bitcoin at the end of the day is just code that was created by a human, there was an arbitrary limit when the code was originally written that set the limit at 21 million bitcoins. That is an arbitrary limit that can be changed, surely the creators of bitcoin still have access to their code. When enough resources are thrown at something all unbreakable codes can be broken, remember enigma
Gold is extremely rare even in the universe and humans cannot create gold like they can with bitcoin. Do you not think a bit far fetched to suggest that gold will become cheap because we will be able to harvest it from asteroids but breaking the bitcoin code is too difficult so it will replace gold ..... good luck with that
I disagree about the ability to "hack bitcoin"
The code is open source, anybody can copy it and make whatever changes you want.
It's not the code that runs the protocol that is unhackable, it's data that comprises the blockchain.
My point is, that the scale of resources and timing to "hack bitcoin" the bitcoin protocol is too great probably for even a nation state to attempt.

I believe it requires that every single node across the entire network be hacked simulateously, and nobody notices?
It's not realistic.

Gold is hard to find and acquire on Earth due our molten core pulling heavy elements to the center, and what we find in the upper crust is the gold that has been churned up from meteor strikes and from plate tetonics.

Asteroids don't have this problem.
433 Eros:

Data from the Near Earth Asteroid Rendezvous spacecraft collected on Eros in December 1998 suggests that it could contain 20,000 billion kilograms of aluminum and similar amounts of metals that are rare on Earth, such as gold and platinum

I believe the 20,000 billion kg is greater than all the gold we've mined on Earth... ?
 

joe sod

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I disagree about the ability to "hack bitcoin"
The code is open source, anybody can copy it and make whatever changes you want.
It's not the code that runs the protocol that is unhackable, it's data that comprises the blockchain.
My point is, that the scale of resources and timing to "hack bitcoin" the bitcoin protocol is too great probably for even a nation state to attempt.
Fair enough you obviously understand bitcoin in depth which I dont. If you give me a choice between 1 bitcoin and 10 ounces of gold (about the same value now at todays prices) , I will take the gold. Im surprised it has fallen given that a few days ago it was over $20000 a bitcoin nearly 16 ounces of gold.
 

Andrew365

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279
Why not? Gold only has a value because the collective believe it has value i.e. you and your neighbour. This is after thousands of years of people believing it has value but in reality what is the use of gold? It is basically only useful for making Jewellery.

There is no difference with Bitcoin, if the collective believe it has a monetary value then it does.
 

tecate

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Why not? Gold only has a value because the collective believe it has value i.e. you and your neighbour. This is after thousands of years of people believing it has value but in reality what is the use of gold? It is basically only useful for making Jewellery.

There is no difference with Bitcoin, if the collective believe it has a monetary value then it does.
Quite right. Gold has been established over an age - that's clearly to be respected. However, otherwise, in terms of valuation, there is no difference. Some will say that it has use as jewelry or limited industrial use but the reality is that its primary use is as a store of value.

Both implicate scarcity - designed in, in the case of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is digital gold - and can be transmitted anywhere in the world.

I brought it up in the context of the price/value point because in terms of the price/value consideration, they're both exactly the same.
 

Andrew365

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279
I am with you, my post was moved from the other thread in which Brendan had stated Bitcoin is not like gold.
 

tecate

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Well, there really seems to be a lot of confusion in conventional centralised banking and monetary circles. The Chairman of the Fed - Jerome Powell - acknowledged early today that Bitcoin is a speculative store of value - just like gold.

Well I never. o_O
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
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40,557
Hi tecate

“Almost no one uses bitcoin for payments, they use it more as an alternative to gold,” he said Thursday afternoon. “It’s a speculative store of value.”

Isn't that what you and the others do with it?

You are using it as a speculative store of value?

Or are you using it for payments?

Brendan
 
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