Apart from our differing predictions, I'm not sure how you believe that $30,000 is not good. Ask his Dukeness if he considers $30,000 bad for an asset he believes is worth nothing - and one that he reminded everyone repeatedly over the course of 3 years that it would never see $20,000 ever again. As for $100, you can only dream my dear @letitroll .I’ll stick to commenting on the price of bitcoin with you fellas there’s no point doing anything else - maybe we can all agree on the irrefutable property of numbers….BTC = $64,888 good, BTC at $30,000 not good……., BTC $8,000 really not good…..BTC $100 oh oh spagheitto
What did you think of the Miami declaration of faith, as posted by @letitroll?
I'm not sure how you believe that $30,000 is not good.
say that with a straight face to people who bought BTC at $64,888….
I didn't even go there as I wanted to tackle Dukey's smoke and mirror routine - but Wolfie had the two of you bang to rights. Even the Wahhabi high priest Roubini wouldn't dare suggest that bitcoin is inflationary! - he'd be moaning about it being largely deflationary.Inflation is a decrease of purchasing power for real world goods and services for a given unit of a monetary instrument - FFS lads…..it isn’t that hard lads…your scaring me…….if its two sea shells (monetary instrument) to buy one cow (real world item) one year…..and a year later it costs four sea shells to buy the same cow……..the inflation rate is 100% in sea shells
Wolfie has already called you out on this - and I'm doing the same. Over the course of three years of discussion, we had his Dukeness and others cherry picking the market tops and aping at it. If you want to go year on year - 1 Jan to 1 Jan - fine. I think we've probably got another 6 months + in this bull market. When it ends, I'll be pulling you up on that nonsense. On average - year on year - bitcoin has appreciated over 200% pa since its foundation.SERIOUSLY -your going to make me type it out…………..say that with a straight face to people who bought BTC at $64,888….what a little less than 8 weeks ago….with it dropping to $30k…..thats a 52% loss of purchasing power……or a 52% BTC inflation rate in just 8 WEEKS!!…..a 12 MONTH total 2% inflation rate in fiat dont seem so bad now?
hopefully we can agree that the price of BTC in USD listed publicly on Coinbase is the ultimate bell weather for this discussion we're having. You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own price quote.
This is getting so silly. Of course they are two different measurements. @tecate called his inflation which it patently is not, see Investopedia definition. Neither of you are going to admit the error so I will leave it at that and spare your blushes.You are measuring the inflation (deflation) rate against USD or Euro.
@tecate is measuring it, as I understand it, at the rate of increasing supply.
They are two different measurements so cannot be compared.
but I ask you do you think it is right to cheerlead the poor people of El Salvador, and they are poor, on to this voyage?
so why not have a punt on bitcoin.
Your advice to poor El Salvadorians that "what have you got to lose and who knows it could be you", is very lotto-esque.Except its not really lotto-esque is it?
Your advice to poor El Salvadorians that "what have you got to lose and who knows it could be you", is very lotto-esque.
I was actually on a truce. But then they invaded El Salvador :mad:I thought you all would have called a truce today now that the pubs are opened!!
Dukey, you know perfectly well that what you started with was disingenuous. You know perfectly well that the point you picked this up at was a discussion of pre-programmed-in inflation in the case of bitcoin's monetary policy and intended inflation as part of fiat monetary policy.This is getting so silly. Of course they are two different measurements. @tecate called his inflation which it patently is not, see Investopedia definition. Neither of you are going to admit the error so I will leave it at that and spare your blushes.
Others might not understand it but I know well that you do - as you've spent four years on the topic. So lets go through it. Step into Satoshi's shoes. You have a decentralised currency - you're not going to peg it to the USD - as that's going to completely defeat the purpose. You're not going to back it or peg it to a commodity - as again, that's going to leave it prone to centralisation, manipulation and control. You release it to the world as a decentralised fixed supply currency. The finite supply is unrivaled by any other financial asset but at that embryonic point, it's just code - nobody has any appreciation for it. Furthermore, you want to ensure that distribution is fair upon initial issuance. So - it's effectively given away in return for mining.@tecate shrugs this off as a “voyage of price discovery” which he says has still a long way to play out.
There's a couple of things here. You've fallen foul of this before. Over the course of three years, you constantly referred to the market top of $20,000 and the poor hapless craturs (someone please think of the children!) that bought at the top. Well, was all of that commentary for nothing? If so, who's to say that what you're going on with right now is also for nothing?It is not implausible that the majority of today's bitcoin holdings are standing at a loss. This looks like the ultimate Ponzi scheme. When the music stops very few of those caught in the headlights will have made money on bitcoin.
Turning to the battle for San Salvador...Your advice to poor El Salvadorians that "what have you got to lose and who knows it could be you", is very lotto-esque.
Maybe @tecate is enjoying the roller coaster thrills and spills but I ask you do you think it is right to cheerlead the poor people of El Salvador, and they are poor, on to this voyage In the middle of its roller coaster phase?
Disingenuous? Playing a "gotcha"? Maybe. Inflation is an interplay between the supply and demand for money in terms of its utility which is usually as a medium of exchange. It is an interesting subject in its own right but I will not pursue it further here. I calculate the increase in btc purchasing power in terms of pizzas at over 400% p.a. which, as I said, is to all intents a deflation of 100% p.a.Dukey, you know perfectly well that what you started with was disingenuous. You know perfectly well that the point you picked this up at was a discussion of pre-programmed-in inflation in the case of bitcoin's monetary policy and intended inflation as part of fiat monetary policy.
Not only did you not explain the difference with what you bolted on to that - but you are then cherry picking market tops and bottoms and timeframes to suit. That's not on. On average, bitcoin's buying power has increased at a rate of 200%+ per year - over the course of its existence.
I was questioning the cheerleading of poor El Salvadorians on to the roller coaster, long before it reaches maturity.Now, explain to us how there can be any other route to its maturity other than a multi-year process of price discovery that is directly related to adoption - and thus, demand? Tell us how this could have been done differently please?
I admit that I have been on balance spectacularly wrong on the voyage of price discovery but my day will comeThere's a couple of things here. You've fallen foul of this before. Over the course of three years, you constantly referred to the market top of $20,000
As you say, written with a heavy genuflection to the cult. But partly informative for all that. A few takeaways to support the Satanic (or is it Wahaabi'ist) view.
Like I said, on average bitcoin's buying power has increased 200%+ per year since its release.Disingenuous? Playing a "gotcha"? Maybe. Inflation is an interplay between the supply and demand for money in terms of its utility which is usually as a medium of exchange. It is an interesting subject in its own right but I will not pursue it further here. I calculate the increase in btc purchasing power in terms of pizzas at over 400% p.a. which, as I said, is to all intents a deflation of 100% p.a.
I'll take your lack of a response to mean that you understand well why bitcoin has to be volatile over the next few years and that you have no suggestion as to how Satoshi could have designed the digital currency such that this wouldn't be a transitional feature.I was questioning the cheerleading of poor El Salvadorians on to the roller coaster, long before it reaches maturity.
@letitroll wasn't even aware of its existence so hard to fathom how his opinion on it matters. Other than that, he's referring to its use at scale - and there's only ever one way in reality to put that to the test. If we were to take your view, then nothing would ever be put into production. As I write this, an email has just hit my inbox with a notification that Bottlepay - a lightning network-based payments app similar to Mallers' Strike but based out of the UK - has just gone live - facilitating instant Euro/GBP to BTC payments.Lightning network - I am not at all au fait with the micro working of Lightning but @letitroll seems far from convinced. Neither does the link which suggests that El Salvadorians are in for a "trial by fire" on this one. This on top of the roller coaster ride. Do they really deserve this?
"Monetary rape" Duke, really? Is this why the banking system has turned their noses up at them - they don't want to 'monetarily rape them'? You've defaulted back to cherrypicking market tops and shorter term timelines when its proven that over the course of its 12 odd years or so, bitcoin has appreciated by 200%+ pa.The link hails this as the "greatest development ever" for bitcoin but also notes that btc will "sink or swim" as a result of this move. I think it will have game changing effects, already has, just as El Musk had, but my money (in €) would be that this will so not deliver that it will bring forward BOHA day. For example, let's say that it is "successful" in it immediate stated purpose and the poor people of El Sal become awash with btc and then it falls to that ATH-80% that you predict, the outcry world wide at the "monetary rape" of a poor nation will be deafening.
Bitcoin is down over 15% since the announcement which the link describes as "moving sideways" which I suppose in terms of the current roller-coaster phase of the "voyage of price discovery" is an accurate description.
There is no 'grotesque misrepresentation'. He simply outlines the pro's and con's - of which seigniorage is one.Finally the link makes a big play of "seigniorage" which it portrays as the US grabbing a lot of EL Sal product by issuing dollars that cost them nothing. This is a grotesque misrepresentation. El Sal are not compelled to hold US$. They can switch it for gold or more importantly they can switch it for goods and services at any time of their choosing - this is a debt from the US government, not a mere digital entry on the Fed's ledger. The solution to this seigniorage pillage?
Insert 'old man yells at cloud' meme.El Sal should get into bitcoin mining, before the end of this epoch of course (epoch ends at next halving, just like the Bible the cult has its own astrophysical terminology). Givus a break!
If I can get past why a BOHA should have a price at all, I can surely understand why it has to be volatile. As it happens bitcoin has achieved a price - a truly unbelievable price - which has no backing at all except speculation and pump. No surprise that that is a volatile cocktail.I'll take your lack of a response to mean that you understand well why bitcoin has to be volatile over the next few years and that you have no suggestion as to how Satoshi could have designed the digital currency such that this wouldn't be a transitional feature.
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