Bishop Of Kerry speaks out

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To answer lazyboy;

My atheism is pretty much along the lines of 0's. I'm a live and let live atheist with respect for all religions (and anything else that helps you through the crap times in life). I don't force my strong opinions about religion on others and I don't expect theirs to be forced on me. I do take it quite seriously and don't believe I am coping out - sometimes it'd be easier to shut up and go along with it. I'm not married but I don't think there's any way I'd be persuaded to walk up the aisle of a church for anyone's mother, including my own. As for the school and baptism situation, I don't know how this would impact on me - the schools near me take all sorts of religions (country schools). I don't envy rainyday the dillemma though.

I don't think I ever really "believed" in God, except as a small kid in a Santa Claus kind of way. At around 15 I bought lots of books to investigate other religions (I was brought up Catholic), but while they all had merits, I just don't believe in God, be it Christian or Muslim or anything else. The only way I could possibly get my head around it would be by to take all the Church teachings (Bible etc) metaphorically and cut the rituals but that's too much like an a la cart approach and I do believe that you are either part of something or you're not. Some of the Eastern ones like Bhudism, Hinduism and Taoism were appealing because they appeared to be more about a way of life but you still have to take a leap of faith. In a way, studying philosophy has brought me far more consolation and peace than Catholicism ever did, eventhough it doesn't give any answers.

As for the cemetary question; that's an interesting one. As I said earlier, I couldn't care less where I'm buried (or cremated) personally; when I'm gone I'm gone. Have to say cremation does appeal more but only because of an irrational concern about being buried alive (one too many late night horror film!!).

Rebecca
 
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Lazyboy02

Atheism: Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
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Those of us who don't know are just agnostics.

Delaneyd

If your partner is church going then you would have no problem in kerry. If not you could still get married acording to what was on the news. There would be a blessing but no Mass as part of the ceremony.

Rainyday

Why not contact the local schools and see what there requirments actually are. Many schools now have only a nominal input from the local parish who orignally sponsored them. I hope that you stick to your beliefs.

Rd

I too hope that people will assert their beliefs and act acccordingly. I think that it might actually take more courage to stand up and say that you are a practising Catholic who supports the church than to shake off the rituals of the church.

I agree with 0's logic on religion but I don't belive it can't be proven one way or the other so I remain an agnostic. I support the churchs right to exist and to have its rules.

Nogser
 
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Hi JoeNonety

An atheist is defined (by the Cambridge Dictionaries Online) as "someone who believes that God or gods do not exist". It doesn't matter if a religion is still claiming you as a member, it's what you believe that counts.

I personally wouldn't go to the hassle of having myself excommunicated because then my parents wouldn't be able to bury as they'd want to, if anything happened.

Do I not remember my mother telling me of a long list of criteria you had to meet on an annual basis to be considered a proper practising Catholic? There were certains masses you had to attend and a certain number of confessions. The Church has probably ditched that definition now but I'll check it with her tonight. One thing you'd have to say for rote learning - my mother can still remember all her catechism verbatim.

Rebecca
 
Re: Funerals are a bit different though

0

I'd never ignore someone who believes in what they are saying. However, I would disagree with your staunch desire to almost offend religion and it's practices.

I see your brothers perspective on the Godfather issue. I would see that as more than just a ceremonial or religious responsibility. It's a way of saying - of all my family and friends I want you to watch my kids back if I'm not around! I know thats probably a bit of an exaggeration - but the catholic church caters for that sort of family and support structure to be nurtured in todays society.

Your desire to stand by your "non-beliefs" has me a bit confused. I can see how a Muslim or Hindu may not wish to attend or take part in a Catholic mass - because they have a full set of their own beliefs. However, you seem to pin so much of your values on a void. I would have thought atheists have a take it or leave it attitude when it comes to any religion "I don't care really - it's not like there's a God" sort of attitude! Not an attitude of respect for people with strong faith and a lack of respect for people who have no faith, but still use the Church!
 
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One thing you'd have to say for rote learning - my mother can still remember all her catechism verbatim.
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We learnt the cathecism Q&As but not the 10 commandments in school. Go figure... :\
 
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The Atheist Agnostic distinction is important. Neither believe in god. The Atheists actually "Believe" that there is no god. The agnostics just don't know.

I'd like to be Agnostic. More in keeping with the Open mind philosophy. But I can't help what I believe, so I'm an Athiest.

Never been excomunicated, don't mind if they do it, but I don't have enough regard for the Catholic Church to actually seek it out.

The fact that I'm on the members list for a club that my parents enroled me in has no bearing on whether I believe in god or not.

I would never try to convince anyone to leave the church. But I'm happy to explain where I stand to anyone who cares.

-Rd
 
religion

atheists, thank you. i just have trouble when it comes to thinking that there is no-one out there, guiding it all along. I don't go to mass, so i'm not a good catholic rather a more sectarian one when Celtic are on the box. however i would have faith and like the "Ask the Audience" question in Millionaire, I'd always go with the percentage vote. just to be sure if you know what i mean.

the morals i live by would be as per atheists models, however apparently they were given in stone to Moses and because i have faith in the old stories, it makes me different to atheists.

So if two people, one atheist and one believer are judged on their life, how can you favour one over the other just because of a simple word such as belief.

thats of course if we are judged at all.

its all so "what if" with me.
 
Re: Funerals are a bit different though

Why not contact the local schools and see what there requirments actually are.
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I've tried this with partial success. The local COfI school confirmed their 'priority' list as;

COfI & Other Protestant Religions
Siblings of current pupils;
All others (including RC's, other religion, no religion)

Interestingly enough, they did call back to query the N/A that I entered on the registration form for religion.

I still haven't got round to chasing the RC schools, though it is fairly clear from their brochures that they have a Catholic ethos. To be honest, I'm concerned that even by asking the question, I may be bringing on future discrimination.
 
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I'd never ignore someone who believes in what they are saying. However, I would disagree with your staunch desire to almost offend religion and it's practices.
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I don't see how I offended anybody. I do believe that I would offend more people by participating in a religious ceremony (sacrament to those who believe) just for the ritual. See below for more on this.

I see your brothers perspective on the Godfather issue. I would see that as more than just a ceremonial or religious responsibility. It's a way of saying - of all my family and friends I want you to watch my kids back if I'm not around! I know thats probably a bit of an exaggeration - but the catholic church caters for that sort of family and support structure to be nurtured in todays society.
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I'm not sure how you can second guess my brother's intentions but surely if he wanted that from me he could have asked me. What he did want is somebody to partitipate in a sham religious ceremony. My siblings initially thought that I was being unreasonable but understood and appreciated my point when I explained it to them. Coincidentally he approached me about this on the day of my (civil) wedding which was particularly ironic. Oddly enough the "not wanting to offend the parents" issue comes into this in a perverse way - I always refused to play any active role in family religious ceremonies on the basis that I would be offending my parents' beliefs in THEIR religion by doing so in a hypocritical or sham way. It's akin to daltonr's point above about going to the altar to lie but being berated from not doing so and being honest although my family, while not necessarily agreeing with my beliefs, do acknowledge my right to them. If they didn't then it wouldn't be my problem and wouldn't bother me unduly.

Your desire to stand by your "non-beliefs" has me a bit confused. I can see how a Muslim or Hindu may not wish to attend or take part in a Catholic mass - because they have a full set of their own beliefs. However, you seem to pin so much of your values on a void.
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Just because I don't believe in or would refute the existence of a God, Gods or afterlife doesn't mean that my belief system is void. Have you ever heard of humanism for example?

I would have thought atheists have a take it or leave it attitude when it comes to any religion "I don't care really - it's not like there's a God" sort of attitude! Not an attitude of respect for people with strong faith and a lack of respect for people who have no faith, but still use the Church!
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You are misunderstanding my beliefs so. It is not a matter of take it or leave it as you would understand from what I and others have already posted.
 
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i just have trouble when it comes to thinking that there is no-one out there, guiding it all along.
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Actually I find this the most empowering thing about being an atheist. The fact that we are in control of our own lives and destinies and not being guided along by some external being or force. Even Christians believe in free will as far as I know although I'm not sure how this fits in with divine intervention and miracles... :)
 
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As atheism is not believing in God(s), that obviously means all ye "atheists" don't celebrate Christmas so?
I guess ye're saved all the hassle of buying Christmas presents, writing Christmas cards, putting up Christmas decorations, although ye must surely miss eating Christmas dinner?
 
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Delaney

I'm with 0 100% on the godfather thing. Being a godparent is about looking after the spiritual well-being of the child in the event that the parents can't. It's nothing to do with looking after the child fully after death. My sister has four children and is a practising Catholic and has deliberately not asked me to be godmother because it would make a mockery of the whole thing and is hardly a great example for the kids (Aunty Becky stands up and tells a pack of lies at their first encounter with the Church!). I think my sister is completelyright and I wouldn't do it anyway.

What's wrong with your believes being pinned on a void (your termlinology, not mine)? Why does that mean you have enter into other's hollow rituals? Why would you not be afforded respect for acting by your beliefs, regardless of what they are? Who are you to make a value judgement on what an atheist believes - you can't prove a theist is right either.

Rebecca
 
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Thanks Rd...maybe I should start my own religion!! :)
 
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As atheism is not believing in God(s), that obviously means all ye "atheists" don't celebrate Christmas so?
I guess ye're saved all the hassle of buying Christmas presents, writing Christmas cards, putting up Christmas decorations, although ye must surely miss eating Christmas dinner?
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If you think Christmas trees, decorations and turkey are Christian artifacts then I think you really need a spell in Sunday School studying Theology 101! :lol
 
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i just have trouble when it comes to thinking that there is no-one out there, guiding it all along.
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There's a serious amount of baggage for believers to explain.

* Why do bad things happen to good people.
* Natural disasters.
* Man-Made disasters.
* Genocide.
* Death of infants.
* Aids, Cancer, etc, etc.

The list goes on.

If you believe in God, it's pretty much impossible to explain what kind of god would inflict these things, and harder still to explain why such a god should be worshipped.

But if you're an athiest the reason why bad things happen is obvious. Because things happen all the time and some of the will be bad. You accept it, and you get on with your life.

You do good because it's the right thing to do, not to collect Superclub points for admission to the afterlife.

-Rd
 
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JoeNonety
I actually make a point of going away most Christmasses and don't participate very much. Obviously very little of the rituals carried on at Christmas are Christian; plenty (at best) pagan and more dreamt up by Coca Cola. Funnily enough you still see most Christians taking part anyway. I buy presents for my nieces and nephews because they are still too young to understand my point of view. To be honest, I would imagine that I make a less mockery of Christ by doing what I do than most ofl my semi-practising friends who spend it in a drunken stupor spending hand over fist on junk and too hungover to go to most of the ceremonies - but that is their affair and I definitely meet them for a few bevvies! :)

Rebecca
 
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But if you're an athiest the reason why bad things happen is obvious. Because things happen all the time and some of the will be bad. You accept it, and you get on with your life.
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The Very Reverend Daltonr of the Church of This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language Happens! :lol

You do good because it's the right thing to do, not to collect Superclub points for admission to the afterlife.
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I never realised how apposite my post from earlier today would be! ;)
 
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