Big jump in Bitcoin...

EmmDee

Registered User
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226
@tecate...

I don't fundamentally disagree with what you say. If the "crypto industry" (sorry - I can't think of a better word) got together as a group (brokers, exchanges etc) and agreed to have standards on their customers (i.e. have a full record of the customers as they come into the crypto world) they could probably make a good case for cooperation with the mainstream banking industry without having to track each transaction fully. But to do that it would require coordinated industry standards. Currently the work of a diligent well run exchange is completely undermined by a careless "fly-by-night" as funds can enter by the later and leave by the former.

Banks have been adapting to change and new technology for centuries. People refer to SWIFT when thinking of the "payments rails" but most banks are supporting a dozen different infrastructures - some dating back decades and some completely new (including blockchain). It isn't a fear of new technology. Most of the large international banks have a much larger tech and fintech element than you seem to give credit for.

I also agree that regulations have to change and adapt. That shouldn't really be too difficult in fact. But generally what doesn't happen is that the principles involved don't change (e.g. preventing proceeds of crime from moving through the mainstream financial system). Your difficulties (if I take you as an example of the broader issue) won't really be addressed by changes in procedures unless the principle the bank is applying is thought about and addressed by the exchanges. If that happens, the practical details can adjust very quickly.
 

tecate

Frequent Poster
Messages
568
@EmmDee On the term 'crypto industry', that works just fine. I'm quite happy to accept it has been the wild west and still has issues to sort out but it's definitely a fully fledged industry in its own right at this point. As regards self-regulation and industry standards, I agree completely. The Virtual Commodities Association was set up in August with that in mind.

The top exchanges are no different than conventional financial services businesses at this point as many of them are now partly owned by established conventional companies. Kraken employ 200 people on kyc/aml. Only 12 months ago, all of the exchanges failed. There has been a lot of work put in between then and now and it can be seen. There's no doubt that there's tonnes of work still to be done. However, that's needed on the regulatory side too.

As regards banks and tech, I don't disagree. Them having the tech isn't the issue. Their focus is for their good. As an example, bank of america has been patent trolling like theres no tomorrow. They have more blockchain/crypto related patents than any other company in the world. Yet their CTO came out the other day and rubbished blockchain technology. They will use it when necessary OR will block others from using it.
SWIFT is an abomination. The tech has existed for years to do away with it but they're only starting to react now - with blockchain/crypto coming down the tracks. Not only have they made fat money off it, consumers and businesses have been getting hit on the double - i.e. its both expensive and inefficient/cumbersome.

Regulatory clarity is needed. It would sort out all of this (regardless of whether they take a hard line or innovation-friendly line).

As regards the principles of a policy not changing, I'd imagine that normally they don't. However, this scenario is quite different due the inherent nature of decentralised crypto. They will have to make a decision on it one way or the other - the sooner the better.
 

Gus1970

Frequent Poster
Messages
143
I fully understand the rationale behind bitcoin mining, thanks to fpalb. Perhaps you misunderstood my point, it happens.
I ridiculed the zillions of running the SHA algorithm on a trial and error basis until you get an answer. You countered by pointing out that EVERYTHING comes from trial and error. I presumed you were referring to R&D but possibly you had something else in mind, please clarify. I counter countered that the progress garnered from R&D trial and error could in no way be compared with the mind numbing “Proof of Work” nonsense in the bitcoin protocol.
Also can you explain in more detail why the fully anticipated halving of the rate of increase in bitcoin supply would fuel bullish speculation as the halving approaches?
Hi. Do you have a better POW algorithm? I’d be interested in reviewing it. Thanks
 

Gus1970

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143
I think I’ll buy this “halving” thing being a significant if somewhat irrational factor in the uptick.
If you look at the historical price movements you will see a clear relationship between each of the halvings and price. There can be method in irrationality
 

Duke of Marmalade

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2,457
No. I was just reflecting that some nerds like crypto for its aesthetic beauty. As technology goes it is downright ugly IMHO but then beauty is...
 

tecate

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568
No. I was just reflecting that some nerds like crypto for its aesthetic beauty. As technology goes it is downright ugly IMHO but then beauty is...
This is the technology behind a network which has been online for every second in excess of 10 years and never been hacked? Never been offline. Hard to see the 'ugly' in that.
 

Gus1970

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143
This is the technology behind a network which has been online for every second in excess of 10 years and never been hacked? Never been offline. Hard to see the 'ugly' in that.
It’s up to you what to see, it’s your eyes and your universe. You can find beauty and ugliness in anything in this world, the latter being very easy to find, the former requiring much more effort.
 

Duke of Marmalade

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I have conceded that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For me the use of Einstein's General Theory of Relativity in GPS technology is both beautiful and very useful for wo/mankind.
But there do seem to be folk who get their kicks from the performance of zillions of one way crypto puzzles. They also perceive great utility in having a secure digital entry on an open ledger, albeit it signifies nothing. In fact if it had some material significance I think that would detract from their "beauty".
 

tecate

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568
They also perceive great utility in having a secure digital entry on an open ledger, albeit it signifies nothing.
So with this, you're not just dissing Bitcoin but all of blockchain technology in its entirety.

In fact if it had some material significance I think that would detract from their "beauty".
With tongue wedged in cheek, you referenced 'one way crypto puzzles'. You seem to be speaking in one way riddles yourself.
 

tecate

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568
Yep. It's very low brow tech compared to all the marvels we see in our everyday life.
So alongside your claim of Bitcoin ending up with a value of zero very soon, have all of these companies made the same mistake with blockchain tech? All the time and money they've spent on that thus far - will have been wasted in your view?
 

tecate

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568
That's a complete strawman right there!
So he's responding to an implicit insinuation that blockchain technology as a whole has no utility and your focus is on the latter statement?
Should we surmise from that then that you're joining with his Dukeness and saying that blockchain as a complete technology has no utility?

If so, these posts won't age well for either of you.
 

Leo

Moderator
Messages
10,415
So he's responding to an implicit insinuation that blockchain technology as a whole has no utility and your focus is on the latter statement?
Should we surmise from that then that you're joining with his Dukeness and saying that blockchain as a complete technology has no utility?

If so, these posts won't age well for either of you.
That isn't what he said. Even if he was, that argument is still one of the best examples of a strawman I have seen in quite some time.

From my calling that out, you surmise that I think blockchain has no utility? That's some leap, and also completely inaccurate.
 
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tecate

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568
That isn't what he said. Even if he was, your argument is still one of the best examples of a strawman I have seen in quite some time.
It's what he insinuated - and him not clarifying, leaving it hanging there adds to that.

From my calling that out, you surmise that I think blockchain has no utility? That's some leap, and also completely inaccurate.
I didn't 'surmise' - I posed something as a question.
 

Leo

Moderator
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10,415
It's what he insinuated - and him not clarifying, leaving it hanging there adds to that.
That's not how I read it at all. Forming a conclusion on a lack of information is only likely to lead you to your own viewpoint, not others.

I didn't 'surmise' - I posed something as a question.
Fair enough, so to answer that question, no, you shouldn't surmise that at all. I've confirmed as much multiple times in this forum.
 

tecate

Frequent Poster
Messages
568
That's not how I read it at all. Forming a conclusion on a lack of information is only likely to lead you to your own viewpoint, not others.
Well then I guess we disagree. Semantics - I didn't use the word 'conclusion'. The term I used was 'implicit insinuation' and I stand by that.

Fair enough, so to answer that question, no, you shouldn't surmise that at all. I've confirmed as much multiple times in this forum.
Ok, so you;'re telling me not to do something I didn't do? Understood.
Thank you for acknowledging that blockchain is a legitimate, progressive technology in its own right.
 

Leo

Moderator
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10,415
Ok, so you;'re telling me not to do something I didn't do? Understood.
Seriously? You originally said:

Should we surmise from that then that you're joining with his Dukeness...
To which I replied
no, you shouldn't surmise that at all.
Should I not answer questions or are you developing TBS deflection syndrome?

Thank you for acknowledging that blockchain is a legitimate, progressive technology in its own right.
You're very welcome, but where did I say it was progressive?
 
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