better to be a single occuppier

[Leo]

If you read the leaflet sent by Irish Water the Charges to be levied are to be set By Energy Regulator after Consultation with the public.

Who then has given Government the power to set the charges?
Irish Water are supposed to be a stand alone entity?

I did read the leaflet, but I also understand the scope of the CER's remit. The Energy Regulator set what they saw as an equitable charge for the service within the framework of the existing legislation, and based on the cost of similar services across Europe, they were in line with what would be reasonably expected. Indeed, it could have been expected given the supposed state of our infrastructure that the charges would have been higher to get closer to covering overhaul costs.

What's happened now, is the government are bowing to pressure, and extending the capped billing period, and introducing reliefs. Who has given them the power to do so? The electorate have. You'll note they haven't done is alter the volumetric charges that the CER was tasked with setting.

 

[Leo]

Well its the govement ministers who are now finally admitting to allready paying for water via our taxes,so they are making things worse for themselves and for FG and Labour as a whole.

Well, currently every tax payer pays a portion of some people's water. The goal here was to make everyone pay for their own water. Somewhere along the line that's gotten lost.

 

[huskerdu]

Infrastructure is a cost in providing the water service as much as actually physically treating the water. I agree with the other points in your post. What really annoys me about it all is that

500 million will be spent on meters over the next 3 years or so

500 million or more will be spent on setting up and running Irish water between Consultants and salaries and bonuses in the first 7 years.

We are treating twice as much water going into houses and premises than we need.

At the proposed charges it will take about 8 years to cover the metering, the set-up costs of Irish Water and the extra salaries involved. Not a cent extra for infrastructure other than the subvention from Government and borrowed money.

So true,

 

[T McGibney]

Water is payed for through general taxation.

Some of the FG and Labour ministers have even said that on TV.So what does it take for the remaining people who dont see this to finally realize that this has been the case for so many years now.

Water was never free.We have allways paid for our water through our taxes

People are saying no to being double charged/double taxed on it.

Don't believe everything you hear on TV. Tens of thousands of country people already pay water charges - local scheme connection fees alone are approx €2k - and you expect them to pay, via their taxes, for your water as well.

 

[Marion]

I don't always agree with you, but I am on the same team on this issue.

Marion

 

[flowerman]

Don't believe everything you hear on TV. Tens of thousands of country people already pay water charges - local scheme connection fees alone are approx €2k - and you expect them to pay, via their taxes, for your water as well.

No I dont expect people to pay for any service to my house.
I pay my taxes,as does my wife so we pay for our services to our house.

You see this is where FG and Labour are desperately trying to split the people of this fine nation,they will now say,do and use anything they can to try and turn the stem of peoples anger in their favour.

Funny how Mr Kenny and Miss Burton will not answer the key question of IW being privatized and also what the charges will be after a 4 year cap is lifted.They keep on avoiding those very important questions and facts.Enda Kenny is running scared and so too is Joan Burton.
Why wont they write it into legislation or put it to a vote of the people of Ireland (refarendum on IW)?????
Because they want to privatize IW and have allways wanted to do that from the word go.The water act they set up even provides for that to happen,so Enda Kenny is now purposely avoiding the key questions and he is running scared.

I see that silly FG backbencher had to widthdraw his shocking remarks and comments from the record of the dail,where he likened water protesters to ISIS and called Dublin people scum.

Enda Kenny wants to stand beside the orignial 1916 proclamation and use it as a publicity stunt for all the newpapers to take his photograph,well he had better remember that people in 1916 revolted for this nation of Ireland and its future.So he had also better understand exactly what that proclamation stands for and understand why people are now revolting and protesting against FG and Labour too.

 

[Purple]

I am in favour of a usage based charge rather that the new lower charge which is just a tax and will not have a behavioural impact.
People are annoyed that they have to pay an extra tax. I get that.
Now let’s put this tax into perspective; it’s lower than the RTE tax we all pay and it’s not the removal of some fundamental human right. We do not have the right to free water, just as we do not have the right to free food or free housing. The government is duly elected and is perfectly entitled to levy taxes. People are perfectly entitled to protest against those taxes but the organisers of the protests should stop being so dishonest about their motives.

Looney Left Alliance (People against reality, The Joooeeee Higgins Parts, Paul what’s his name etc.); They protest against everything that doesn’t involve the advancement of their Extremist ideology.
Shinners: Populism and trying to create as much noise as possible to cover up the child sex abuse scandals their leader and party are involved in.
Trade Unions: Populism; looking to get members who will in turn pay subs and in turn generate the revenue to pay their €100,000 - €150,000 a year salaries.

 

[Purple]

No I dont expect people to pay for any service to my house.
I pay my taxes,as does my wife so we pay for our services to our house.

Are you sure? You have to pay a awful lot of tax before you are actually covering all of the cost of the services the state provides for you and your family.

You see this is where FG and Labour are desperately trying to split the people of this fine nation,they will now say,do and use anything they can to try and turn the stem of peoples anger in their favour.

I must have missed that bit.

Why wont they write it into legislation or put it to a vote of the people of Ireland (refarendum on IW)?????

Maybe because they don’t want to trivialise our constitution.

Because they want to privatize IW and have allways wanted to do that from the word go.The water act they set up even provides for that to happen,so Enda Kenny is now purposely avoiding the key questions and he is running scared.

I’ve heard plenty of government proeple (including Enda and Joan) say they they won’t privatise it and are willing to legislate to that end.

I see that silly FG backbencher had to widthdraw his shocking remarks and comments from the record of the dail,where he likened water protesters to ISIS and called Dublin people scum.

Yes, that was a stupid comment. He should have compared them to football hooligans; a small minority of scumbags who were there to cause trouble and intimidate politicians as they carry out their duties.

Enda Kenny wants to stand beside the orignial 1916 proclamation and use it as a publicity stunt for all the newpapers to take his photograph,well he had better remember that people in 1916 revolted for this nation of Ireland and its future.So he had also better understand exactly what that proclamation stands for and understand why people are now revolting and protesting against FG and Labour too.

That’s just silly. This is about a small tax, not universal suffrage.


Best regards,

 

[flowerman]

Maybe because they don’t want to trivialise our constitution.
I’ve heard plenty of government proeple (including Enda and Joan) say they they won’t privatise it and are willing to legislate to that end.

Yes, that was a stupid comment. He should have compared them to football hooligans; a small minority of scumbags who were there to cause trouble and intimidate politicians as they carry out their duties.

That’s just silly. This is about a small tax, not universal suffrage.


Best regards,

We all heard lots of prommises and lies from Enda,/FG and Labour back at election time and all they did in the end was tell us a pack of lies.

Funny that they can make sudden changes like that for various other things but amazingly they WONT make the matter of keeping IW in public ownership a constitutional matter,if they wanted to keep IW in public ownership then they would have made it happen from the very word go.But NO they want to privatise it and they are now running scared that they have been caught out.

The water act also allows for IW to be sold off with the ministers signature.Its there in black and white for all to see,and also recently well highlighted on RTE News and also on the VB show on TV3.
Why wont FG and Labour listen to the people and also immediately ammend the water act?Its because they have allways wanted it to be set up and sold off to private sector.



We now see that IW is telling lies about its costings and figures,now we have an extra 100 million euro of a cost that they eh forgot about??Nobody is going to fall for that excuse.
Nobody trusts IW,nobody trusts FG and nobody trusts Labour anymore because of this whole farce and all the lame excuses and blatant lies that have been told.



Also can I ask you this with regards your comments over it only being a small tax

Do you know what the cost will be for everyone in 4 years time when the cap is lifted?
Do you know how this small tax will affect lots of people from April next year and every year after that?
Do you know how the increased rates will affect the people accross this country in 4 years time?
If IW is privatised,do you know what the water price will be?



Look at what the CER has done with regards gas and electricity bills over the last number of years.Then have a look at how many families currently cant even pay to heat or power their homes and feed their kids properly as they cant afford to switch on the gas or electricity.Those people are fighting every single day to survive and live and do the best for their kids as the Credit Union and SVP reports have shown.

 

[Leo]

No I dont expect people to pay for any service to my house.
I pay my taxes,as does my wife so we pay for our services to our house.

But that's not how taxation works. We all pay into a central pot that funds all services for everyone. So those already paying for their water are paying taxes that pay for other people's water.

A lot of us are paying taxes to give other peoples' children an education. All of us healthy people are paying taxes to support the health services. I don't have kids, thankfully I'm also healthy, wouldn't it be great if I could decide I didn't want to pay taxes to support those services? Well, it'd be great for me in the short term, not so good for the country in the long term though.

You do realise that saying you don't expect other people to pay for services provided to you is the greatest argument in favour of water charges?

 

[Leo]

Look at what the CER has done with regards gas and electricity bills over the last number of years.

You need to look at the wider market here. Our gas rates are in line with European averages, after the sell of of the Corrib field, we don't have any national assets that I'm aware of, so we're bound by the international market there. Our electricity rates are 20% higher than the European average, but we don't have nuclear power, and how much are we paying to subsidise the terms of former state employees (with average pay & pension of ~100k)?

 

[Purple]

The water act also allows for IW to be sold off with the ministers signature.Its there in black and white for all to see,and also recently well highlighted on RTE News and also on the VB show on TV3.

Well if it was on the Krusty the Clown show on TV3 then it must be true.

 

[flowerman]

Well if it was on the Krusty the Clown show on TV3 then it must be true.

You can try and make little of my posts all you want Purple.Also thanks for avoiding my post in its entirety.

Fact of the matter is that it was on RTE News,RTE Primetime and also on TV3 and the actual document and its wording was put up on screen to show that all that needs to be done is for the minister to sign the document and that is IW privatised.Thats all that has to happen for IW to be sold off and for Irish people to be completely hung out on water rates.The backbenchers that FG and Labour cowardly sent onto the programmes to defend this and justify this were squirming in their chairs and had to eventually admit that 1 signature and IW could be privatised.

So why wont Enda and Joan immediately ammend this act and put it in the constitiution that IW can never be privatised??
Because Enda and Joan want it to be privatised,they allways wanted that to be the case and keep on worming their way out of answering the direct question they keep on being asked.

 

[flowerman]

It will be interesting to see how many people go to this large water protest in Dublin on Wednesday 10th December.
I know there wont be as many protesters as the last time,due to this protest being on weekday,but it will be interesting to see the numbers and then see if Mr Kenny and Ms Burton still say the same one liners,"we have listened to the people" or "we feel their pain".

 

[flowerman]

This simple and straight to the point 2 minute video about Irish Water,Enda Kenny and the massive waste of money sums it up perfectly for alot of people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVjqFA7HNwU#t=121

 

[Purple]

This simple and straight to the point 2 minute video about Irish Water,Enda Kenny and the massive waste of money sums it up perfectly for alot of people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVjqFA7HNwU#t=121


I see that DCC have found 55 million euro to move a library from one side of a road to the other side in Dublin City Centre and they also have found 9 million euro to modernize Mountjoy Square Park/Green,yes the actual park/green.Theres nothing wrong with the park/green area,its actually quite nice and well maintained too.

So that money could not have been used by DCC to fix some of the burst mains water pipes around Dublin City Centre,no???

You won't catch me suggesting that there isn't massive waste by the state and all of it's agencies and minions. The fact is that Irish Water is no worse than any other semi-state body and is probably better than many. The only think that makes it stand out is that it's new.

 

[Purple]

You can try and make little of my posts all you want Purple.Also thanks for avoiding my post in its entirety.

I was referring to Vinnie Browne, not you.
I'm not sure what I ignored. I agree that Irish Water shouldn't be sold off but to put such an undertaking into our constitution would trivialise it.

 

[blueband]

and to not put it in would give the green light to the government to sell it off at any time in the future....bit of a catch 22 there

 

[flowerman]

I was referring to Vinnie Browne, not you.
I'm not sure what I ignored. I agree that Irish Water shouldn't be sold off but to put such an undertaking into our constitution would trivialise it.

Fair enough,Im glad thats sorted.



Problem is that Enda Kenny has his "masterplan" and he doesnt want to do a u-turn on it.Joan Burton is hanging on for dear life and will go with what ever Enda says.Joan Burton will jump as high as Enda says to jump.

Both of them are acting in a rather cowardly manner now that its all come to everyones attention over the water act and its exact wording.

No wonder FG and Enda didnt want the matter or IW being set up debated in the dail last year.They tried to screw us over on setting up IW but now things have gone pear shaped on both FG and Labour and this farce of a water company.

Enda really needs to grow up and LISTEN to what he being asked to do.
Sign it into the constitiution that IW can never be sold off and that its allways to remain a public body.

Either do that or else scrap IW as its allready costing way way too much to ever be successfull.Then go and call a snap general election and see if he and FG sill have a mandate from the people to rule this country.

Because all that IW is,is yet another "jobs for the boys" company.
Its nothing to do with saving water or repairing the 42% of leaking pipe lines,its all about making some more rich people even richer.

 

[demoivre]

Is the government paying one adult households with water supply or waste water services net €20 per year if they register, or are my computations unbecoming of my username ?