Berties Apology

Bertie and Ian

Bertie made a mistake and immediately apologised. He should be commended for that. Most politicians when they make a mistake either cover it up or bluff their way out of it.

The Perfect Compromise :

Put all the arms and semptex into Ian's house (with nobody in it of course) and blow it up. Video the explosion and use that as evidence. Saves face for everyone.
 
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Rabbit,
"The world must stand up to terrorism, whither it be from the IRA, UVF or FARC."

I am surprised that you omitted the British army and the U.S.
Surely their terrorism(need we go back in history) is just as bad,if not worse that the others. Do you not think so ?.

Rgds
Red
 
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Red,

Governments of countries such as the UK and US have armies primarily to deter or defeat foreign agressors. This is what they done in WWI, WW2, The cold war, Kuwait etc. Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people DRESSED UP IN UNIFORM. Unlike certain other groups ,any legitimate government anywhere in the world is not perfect all of the time, but neither the UK or US employed the tactics of the IRA or INLA or UVF.

I think you have lost the plot a bit if you think the killers of Jean McConville and Gerry McCabe can be compared to large armies. Too much reading of Gerrys bedside books !
 
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However, I have found that those who condemn Paisley the most are also Sinn Fein / IRA sympathisers
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I think that falls into te category of "sweeping generalisation".
I think Paisley offers a window into the dark age of religious intolerance in 15th and 16th century Europe. His intolerance and hatred are an impassable obstacle on the path to real peace and reconciliation on this Island.
For the record I think that the present IRA were born out of necessity in the 60's, descended into savagery in the 70's and became, to a large extent, common criminals in the 80's.
And while I disagree with IRA/UVF etc murderers getting out of prison and would never support Sinn Fein (and got threatened at knife point in a pub in Cork when I refused to put money into a SF collection box),the point is that even their wild men have changed with time.
Paisley on the other and remains just as bigoted now as he was 30 years ago. Change is his real enemy and change will only come after his day.
 
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Paisley on the other and remains just as bigoted now as he was 30 years ago. Change is his real enemy and change will only come after his day.

Oh, I do not know about that. He is willing to share power and talk to Sinn Fein once they take the guns out from under the table. I know catholics who have met him and they say he is a gentleman. Look at the election results for certain parts of Paisleys constituency, and you will see that some catholics vote for him. I am not saying he is right about everything, but I do not think he is the most evil person in N.I. either. Has he not consistently condemned murders and bombings?

I agree in general, the wild men of the IRA are not as wild, but is this also not a sweeping generalisation ? Look at the real IRA, look at Omagh.

Like the last poster, I agree there are good and bad on both sides. Unlike the last poster, I have come across many people more bigoted than Paisley, but on the catholic side,
who condoned the taking of life. Food for thought.
 
terrorists?

Rabbit,
If you think that if people wear uniforms they are not terrorists you are greatly mistaken. Look at any of the countries the US invaded or bombed for no apparent reason except they didnt like their style of government, eg, Laos, cambodia etc. These countries were bombed into the stone age where they still are today even thought hey posed no threat to the US. The amount of young children going around limbless because of landmines planted by the US is staggering. Terrorists?
I dont believe that any fair minded person could look at paisleys history and not think that his constant preaching of hatred hasnt directly contributed to the deaths of many many catholics. "Ah sure he didnt say half the things he is credited as saying" Wake Up!
 
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I have come across many people more bigoted than Paisley, but on the catholic side, who condoned the taking of life. Food for thought.
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Indeed, and I would not claim that Paisley is the most bigoted man in the north, but I would suggest that he is the most bigoted leader of a major political party and the biggest stumbling block to a lasting settlement in the north. I would also suggest that he is motivated more by sectarian hatred and supremacism than genuine concern for the rights of the loyalist community.
 
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Quote I would suggest that he is the most bigoted leader of a major political party and the biggest stumbling block to a lasting settlement in the north.

He has always condemned the taking of life, and bombings. Has Gerry Adams ? Was Gerry Adams not leader of a IRA unit in jail in the seventies? Who was the leader of the IRA in Belfast when Jean McConville was tortured and killed. As regards bigotry, Paisley has his views, and I would not agree with most of them, but to be fair his views would not kill and maim like semtex does. I know catholics who have met him and who have found him to be a gentleman. OK, the IRA does get up his nose, but if we had hundreds of Gerry McCabes here, would the situation be much different?



As for the biggest stumbling block to a lasting settlement in the North, I would have thought the biggest stumbling block, as voted by 81% of people in a recent poll, was IRA arms and the refusal of IRA to decommission them to the most peoples satisfaction.
 
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He has always condemned the taking of life, and bombings. Has Gerry Adams ? Was Gerry Adams not leader of a IRA unit in jail in the seventies?
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I don't know about the first part but I would never defend the record of Gerry Adams. Adams has blood on his hands but whatever the colour of his soul may be he is a pragmatist. Paisley is, in his own words, a fundamentalist. government in a democracy is the exercise of compromise in order to get things done. The two don't mix.
As for the biggest stumbling block to a lasting settlement in the North, I would have thought the biggest stumbling block, as voted by 81% of people in a recent poll, was IRA arms and the refusal of IRA to decommission them to the most peoples satisfaction.
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That is the most immediate stumbling block but it is an issue which can be dealt with, the reverend is a man who history had shown cannot be gone around.
The greatest sadness for me is the disappearance of the middle ground on the north. The only ones left with real power at the table are the bigots and the murderers...
 
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The greatest sadness for me is the disappearance of the middle ground on the north. The only ones left with real power at the table are the bigots and the murderers...
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Inevitable, but regrettable.
The only solution I see is to forget about the North for about 50 years. If they can agree with Devolved Government, good for them, if not, no big deal.

If no devolved government means a return to violence, then they weren't ready for it anyway.

The problem is Bertie and Tony have gotten to the point where regardless of what's actually best all round, they want agreement and they'll pay any price, release any prisioner, accept any compromise, to get it.

It's reached the point where that approach looks (from the outside) to be counter productive.

But to Give Bertie his due...I have no right to lecture him on how to deal with the North. They have all moved further than I thought they would.

-Rd
 
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