"Belfast" vs "Good Friday" agreement

Purple said:
Therefore Brexit and the removal of the UK from the jurisdiction of the ECJ altered the UK's Constitution.
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The GFA has no relevance for the UK constitution as it affects mainland Britain. There was no referendum in mainland Britain on the GFA. The GFA did guarantee NI the veto on any changes of its constitutional position within the UK. I take it that you agree that this has happened. The arch GFA worshippers such as Simon Varadkar seem to have no issue with this blasphemy.
There was nothing inevitable about this even after the Brexit vote. Theresa May's way would have avoided any issues with trade borders. It finished the way it did simply because Bojo left himself in a position where he felt he had to "get Brexit done" at any cost. And if that cost was shafting NI unionists that wouldn't bother him. The EU milked that for all its worth and forced a protocol which even they now concede was 80% OTT. And Simon Varadkar laughed up their sleeves.
 
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cremeegg said:
When the UK's exit agreement with the EU was being negotiated the EU agreed to make this issue one of 3 fundamental issues, huge success for Irish diplomacy.
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Maybe, or just maybe the EU saw a really good bargaining tool. It very nearly worked as May's deal was not Brexit. But in the end it backfired as May could not carry the humiliation with her own parliament. The replacement was at the hard Brexit end.
cremeegg said:
The Therese May nearly agreed a solution involving the entire UK, that would have worked but the DUP stopped her.
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Yep, the DUP really overplayed their hand here. They thought they would always be the power brokers.
cremeegg said:
Boris with his majority agreed a NI only solution, the DUP don't want that either, not because its bad economics,
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I haven't checked but I suspect that the independence of Ireland 100 years ago was not the smartest economic policy. For unionists the clear weakening of their union with Britain trumps any economic benefit.
cremeegg said:
but because they can make political hay opposing it.
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I agree that the protocol issue has been greatly overplayed by the DUP, in particular to save them from the anathema of being second fiddle to SF.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
The GFA has no relevance for the UK constitution as it affects mainland Britain.
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What other part of Britain is there other than the mainland? Are you talking about the islands off Scotland?
The GFA was and is a Constitutional Document in that it limits and informs other legislation. It also binds any legislation which effects Northern Ireland to the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Brexit changed that and so it was unconstitutional. The Tory establishment chose to ignore that.
Duke of Marmalade said:
There was no referendum in mainland Britain on the GFA.
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There was no referendum in any part of Britain on the GFA. Do some people think that British islands got a vote along with Northern Ireland? Referendums have no legal or constitutional standing in the UK. Their Monarch in Parliament is Sovereign. Their Parliament voted for it, in breach of their constitution.
Duke of Marmalade said:
The GFA did guarantee NI the veto on any changes of its constitutional position within the UK.
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Correct.
Duke of Marmalade said:
I take it that you agree that this has happened.
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Yes, the GFA changed it.
Duke of Marmalade said:
The arch GFA worshippers such as Simon Varadkar seem to have no issue with this blasphemy.
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Simon Coveney has shown remarkable restraint and considerable diplomatic skill in his handling of the British and Northern Irish politicians over the past number of years. I didn't think he's be so good. Leo is certainly prone to saying more than he should, but both have maintained the alignment with the broader EU position. Brexit is a nonsense and the outcome that its proponents promised is, and always was, a lie. The Irish and EU politicians and negotiators have simply confronted that lie with the truth.
So how could it have been done? There is no Brexit without control of their borders and there's no control of their borders without a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland or NI out of the Union. The UK cannot leave the Single Market without breaking the GFA.
Duke of Marmalade said:
The EU milked that for all its worth and forced a protocol which even they now concede was 80% OTT.
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The EU had been completely consistent from day one. Their position hasn't changed. The supreme arrogance of the Little Englanders, Racists, Xenophobes', English Nationalists, Sheep and Idiots who voted for Brexit was that they thought that Jonny Foreigner would crumble and the Great British would get their way.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
I haven't checked but I suspect that the independence of Ireland 100 years ago was not the smartest economic policy.
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In the longer term it's been a tremendous success. By almost every measure this country is a better place to live for the vast majority of its people. That just wouldn't have happened if we'd remained an economic colony of London.
 
Purple said:
In the longer term it's been a tremendous success.
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You’re missing my point. Economic considerations were not relevant to the struggle for independence in Ireland 100 years ago. Didn’t Dev even wax about a nation living in bliss without any care for crude material success. Even if Ireland was the land of milk and honey you profess unionists would put that secondary to their political aspiration. In any case even nationalists in NI are not so convinced as yourself of the utopia south of the border when they consider the cost of housing, a two tier health system, a two tier education system and a cost of living on a different scale.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
You’re missing my point. Economic considerations were not relevant to the struggle for independence in Ireland 100 years ago. Didn’t Dev even wax about a nation living in bliss without any care for crude material success.
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I agree, and Dev was a bit if a nutter, not in the same league of crazy as Pearce who was as mad as it gets, but he did have some very strange ideas.
Duke of Marmalade said:
Even if Ireland was the land of milk and honey you profess unionists would put that secondary to their political aspiration.
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I don't think it's the land of milk and honey but by almost every economic measure for the vast majority of people it's better than the UK.
Duke of Marmalade said:
In any case even nationalists in NI are not so convinced as yourself of the utopia south of the border when they consider the cost of housing, a two tier health system, a two tier education system and a cost of living on a different scale.
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I agree, but Northern Ireland is very dependent on handouts from the UK exchequer, the Peace Dividend or "Please don't kill each other money" and the disproportionate number of State employees etc. The education system in Ireland is vastly better than that in Northern Ireland. Our healthcare system is much better funded and our primary care system is better but I don't know about waiting lists etc. Their cost of living is much lower but that's because it's an economic basket case.
 
On Simon Coveney, I agree he has played a blinder. But surely @Purple is not taken in by his epitome of diplomacy stance. Simon despises the creationists every bit as much as you or I. And they know it. They would much prefer dealing with Maty Lou than with Simon.
 
Of course they would rather deal with Mary Lou. She also deals in hyperbole and fanciful populism rather than reality.
 
More evidence that the populations of Ireland and Northern Ireland don't want to unite.
Who knew that it was the nurses causing the biggest problem for the Nordies; our health service is cited as one of their biggest concerns.
 
EVEN hardline nationalists living in Northern Ireland have paused to reconsider their stance on a United Ireland, after Taoiseach Micheál Martin made grave warnings about the loss of things like Sainsbury’s, Asda, B&M and ‘really big Tescos’ should unification become a thing...

Taoiseach Cannot Guarantee Northern Ireland Would Keep Asda After Unification

EVEN hardline nationalists living in Northern Ireland have paused to reconsider their stance on a United Ireland, after Taoiseach Micheál Martin made grave warnings about the loss of things like Sainsbury's, Asda, B&M and 'really …
waterfordwhispersnews.com
 
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