Basically told too old for a job

[horusd]

horusd, can't argue with you but life ain't fair. I think the OP should let it go and move on with a positive attitude.
Best of luck, OP.

Let's reverse the scenario and see whether posters would consider this fair. The cosmetics company operates in a business environment. They rightly expect that fair rational laws and a level playing field should apply to them, and rightly so, and they presumably would take legal action to vindicate these rights.

Should they just forget about unfairness and move on, or should they seek that the courts would protect them? Equality and fairness cut's in all directions or none , there isn't a middle ground here. What's sauce for the goose...

 

[monagt]

horusd, look at the rules.

People hire people who are like them. (in their estimation)
People buy from people who are like them.................so hire students to sell to students,.........
People befriend people who are like them.
etc.

Its life Jim, but not as we know it. (Spock)

 

[horusd]

horusd, look at the rules.

People hire people who are like them. (in their estimation)
People buy from people who are like them.................so hire students to sell to students,.........
People befriend people who are like them.
etc.

Its life Jim, but not as we know it. (Spock)

So, a priori it 's a fact, white people don't hire back people, black people don't have white or Asian friends ? blue-eyed people prefer other blue-eyed people? So students won't buy from non students and straight people won't buy from gays? So young adults can't/won't be friends with older people? At the least a highly questionable argument, and not supported by experience.

People are far more complex than this, and far more discerning. And remember this isn't about preferences, this is about fairness in a free society informed by reason.

 

[monagt]

Rapport

So, a priori it 's a fact, white people don't hire back people, black people don't have white or Asian friends ? blue-eyed people prefer other blue-eyed people? So students won't buy from non students and straight people won't buy from gays? So young adults can't/won't be friends with older people? At the least a highly questionable argument, and not supported by experience.

People are far more complex than this, and far more discerning. And remember this isn't about preferences, this is about fairness in a free society informed by reason.

You have made my comments racist!!! You have inserted discrimination on sexual bias!! You have inserted Ageism!!.
My comments could be about a bunch of anglers, a ladies club, coin collectors, vintage car enthusiasts, insurance salesmen,etc.
You really have a hang up on some issues. I am very disappointed in this response.

And Yes, it is supported by experience, based on sales statistics. Its all about developing a Rapport with people.
http://www.persuasionone.com/how-to-persuade/creating-rapport.html

 

[horusd]

Monagt I didn't insert anything or make you're comments anything. The logic of your argument did that, and we're not talking about a ladies club, or anglers or such like, we're talking about a legal requirement not to discriminate in a work contract where both business and the OP operate and which must conform to certain standards. This is governed by laws. The club rules you refer to seem to be about preferences for this or that, not equality in law, but you seem to be conflating the two. As you said to me before, take a chill pill and keep yer hair on!

 

[Complainer]

I know I'm going to get shot down very quickly for this, but I think companies are perfectly entitled to select whoever they want and whatever age groups they choose.

At the end of the day, the business is the one paying the wage and they should be able to hire anyone they want. If they want to hire only 20 yo's with pink hairspikes, fine it's their business and their money.

Let me guess - you're white, male, under 45, straight, Irish and with no disability - right?

OP should set up a new profile on the website, make a fresh enquiry to Ali and record the phone call before getting onto the Equality Tribunal.

 

[Purple]

I know I'm going to get shot down very quickly for this, but I think companies are perfectly entitled to select whoever they want and whatever age groups they choose.

You may think that but thankfully you are incorrect.
Society puts laws in place in order to curb our natural excesses and biases. It is fair and reasonable to legislate so that all citizens are treated equally. If that means that an employer doesn't get to indulge their ignorance or racism when employing people when all the better.
Would you find it acceptable if the prospective employer asked the OP what colour they were or if they were homosexual?
There is no situation where someone can automatically be deemed unsuitable for a job (a job for adults) simply because they are in their 40’s.

At the end of the day, the business is the one paying the wage and they should be able to hire anyone they want. If they want to hire only 20 yo's with pink hairspikes, fine it's their business and their money.

So having power over others gives some of us an exemption from having to behave in a civilised manner?

As for the claim that the company are denying her the right to earn a living... well that's just rubbish. Just because the job exists doesn't mean anyone has a right to it.

No, it means that everyone has the right to be considered for it and the person or organisation offering it must comply with the Equality Act.

 

[lff12]

I know I'm going to get shot down very quickly for this, but I think companies are perfectly entitled to select whoever they want and whatever age groups they choose.

The law says otherwise. Its legitimate for the company to pick whoever they feel is best for the job. It is not legal for them to ask any questions that might enable them to select on the 9 grounds of discrimination.

In practice what would happen if the company wished to pick a particular social group such as a culture or youth etc, they would have to go to interview and assess from there.

A very flawed philosphy and pretty dumb TBO as in reality if you hire only youth, you're probably only selling to youth, and guess who is worst off after the recession? You guessed it:youth.

People who discriminate against older people tend to forget that they are the ones with the cheque books these days.

That said, the law is the law, but nobody is forced to hire anybody they don't want.

 

[alaskaonline]

lff12 couldn't have said it better

Its legitimate for the company to pick whoever they feel is best for the job. It is not legal for them to ask any questions that might enable them to select on the 9 grounds of discrimination

The company made the huge mistake of denying her an interview based on age. If they invited her, talked to her and then decided that her appearance is not what they were looking for, I think they would have had a chance to survive a case. However as things stand, I think they will back paddle and regret that phone call. Why would you call someone up anyway to ask stupid questions? Just shows how unprofessional and naive this company is and personally I wouldn't want to work for a company like this. Who knows what they're up to once you are hired if they don't even know the common rules for hiring someone....

By the way - for all who support that ageism argument based on not giving someone an interview: There are people out there in their 20s who didn't look after themselves (e.g. smoking, drugs, tanning, 24h lifestyle etc.) and look like they're at the end of their 30s AND then you have people that are 40 and look much younger. My friend is 34 and is still being asked for ID when she's going out. What does that tell you about the age written on your birth cert???

 

[Complainer]

It is not legal for them to ask any questions that might enable them to select on the 9 grounds of discrimination.

There is nothing explicit in law that bans any particular questions or kinds of questions. THe law bans discrimination.

It is bad practice for an employer to ask such questions, because it opens up the possibility of a discrimination claim. If you don't ask the questions, you can't be accused of discriminating.