Bad debts - accepting personal responsibility

liaconn said:
., and in the middle of it all my bank rang me several times to ask me if I would like a loan of a few grand to buy myself something nice!
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Do you mean the bank just rang you out of the blue to give you money you hadn't asked for?
 
A few reasons. Perhaps it is because self-indulgence has become not only normal but lauded and admired. Perhaps because a market can only sustain so many television sales that there is a business imperative to make buying new things a modern necessity. Perhaps because humans are pretty poor at long term thinking (a mortgage of thirty years, if time went backwards, would stretch into the 80's, how many people stress test their mortgage repayments with rates from the 1980's?). Perhaps because the culture of the pre-eminence of the individual diminishes social responsibility. Perhaps because we value short term gain more (it is hard-wired into humans).

Might as well ask why anyone in this day and age takes up smoking. It is expensive, dirty, unhealthy. And all of this is well-known yet still you see new people taking up the habit. And not all of them are teenagers.
 
Bronte said:
Do you mean the bank just rang you out of the blue to give you money you hadn't asked for?
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This did happen. Regularly. It was only outlawed under the Consumer Protection Code of 2006.

Bank of Ireland were very proud of their pre-approved loans and made it a press release in 2005. [broken link removed]

Having said all that,as an adult you had the choice of taking the loan or not. You should not use this as an excuse not to pay it back. People should be able to decide how much they can afford and ultimately take responsibility for their actions.
 
VOR said:
Bank of Ireland were very proud of their pre-approved loans and made it a press release in 2005. [broken link removed]
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For me the most telling thing about that is the title of Eddie Ryan (Head of Marketing, Personal Lending).n

Happened to me also. I also politely declined. I also had to request they stop upping my CC limit. I was rather unhappy with the tone of the letter they would send informing me they had done so. It would start with congratulations. What is there to be congratulated? I didn't ask for it because I didn't want it. It certainly isn't a matter of congratulations.
 
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Yes, but celebrities used to be seen as a breed apart. I think Truthseeker's point is that nowadays any ordinary Joe Soap can become a celebrity by entering the Big Brother House, auditioning on telly to be in a pop group or sleeping with a celebrity and selling their story to the papers. Therefore the whole celebrity culture and its' trappings are seen as attainable and not just a luxury to be admired from afar.
 

Thats exactly the point I was making.
Im not blaming this exclusively but simply another jig saw piece in the puzzle of bad debt.
 

Without getting into a review of celebrity culture, I think it's partly true... But does that mean the media is to blame or even should share the blame? To me, no.
 
Latrade said:
Without getting into a review of celebrity culture, I think it's partly true... But does that mean the media is to blame or even should share the blame? To me, no.
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The media is the vehicle through which these celebritys are brought to the level of exposure they are at.
Are they to blame? They are responsible for overexposing these people, but no more to blame than banks for offering loans.
 
truthseeker said:
The media is the vehicle through which these celebritys are brought to the level of exposure they are at.
Are they to blame? They are responsible for overexposing these people, but no more to blame than banks for offering loans.
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But no one has to buy or watch the media that carries this, if people weren't so obsessed by the culture, then it wouldn't appear in the media.

Is it a reflection of society or is it influencing society? I'd say a bit of both, but I still don't include the media in this debate.

I've always wanted an Aston Martin and only because of the James Bond films. Not only have a I (so far) managed to resist the urge to get one, but if I had of "purchased" one on finance and found myself in difficulty I wouldn't be blaming the Broccoli family or Daniel Craig (though if I'd worn teh same style of speedos on holiday I'm sure man of the others on the beach would have had felt they had been wronged).
 
Latrade said:
Is it a reflection of society or is it influencing society? I'd say a bit of both, but I still don't include the media in this debate.
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I agree its both. I also agree no one has to watch or read about these people.

But in looking for reasons why people thought it was ok to over extend themselves I believe that part of that is due to a false belief that they were 'entitled' to the same trappings of the high life as any Broccoli family member who they saw being splashed about on the tv or magazines.

Not the main reason, not the only reason, but it plays a part.
 
Latrade said:
... Daniel Craig (though if I'd worn teh same style of speedos on holiday I'm sure man of the others on the beach would have had felt they had been wronged).
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Is that what you are wearing to the AAM birthday party!?
 
Bronte said:
Do you mean the bank just rang you out of the blue to give you money you hadn't asked for?
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I had a loan with GE capital years ago. For at least 2years I use to get a letter every couple of months congratulating me because I was approved for a €6500 loan. They use to give me suggestions as to how I could spend it such a holiday, home improvements etc. From what I remember, all I had to do was sign the form and they'd post me a cheque.
 
Yorky said:
There is a pervasive culture of entitlement and blind faith in the 'system' that it will 'do something' to prevent any personal loss or difficulties.
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Maybe oneof the good things to come out of the crash is that people will grow up and start acting like adults.
 
Purple said:
Maybe oneof the good things to come out of the crash is that people will grow up and start acting like adults.
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Yes, it would be great to think that this might happen. If in addition, people had some sense of shame, yes old fashioned value that it is, at the thought of not being able to repay debt, that might concentrate their minds before they plunge into unnecessary debt.
And before I'm attacked, yes I have every sympathy for people who lived according to their means and had a reasonable morgage but have lost their jobs and I have no sympathy for those who wanted lifestyles they couldn't afford , took loans for all kinds of rubbish and now think they should be left get away with it. Unless they were seriously mentally ill or of a very low intelligence, they knew they had to pay back the loans and the banks should pursue them even if it takes years. Otherwise they'll do the same in a few years. Why should the rest of us who saved up for cars, holidays and furniture pay for their excesses?
 
I'm so gobsmacked that banks could just loan money this way. It's so irresponsible as to be nearly criminal.

I find that where America goes Ireland follows. 'Maxed Out' is a great book on banks and debt in the US and it looks like Ireland isn't far behind them.

Many moons ago I worked in a holiday town in the US. There was a guy there in a motel to check in. He had about 50 credit cards and the lady at reception had to go through about 20 of them to see which one would work, which she quite happily did. To this day I can't figure out how he was able to manage his financial affairs like that but obviously he wasn't. The amount of people on AAM with multiple credit cards and store cards and car loans and travel loans and credit union loans to say nothing of overdrafts is amazing. How did things come to this. People are spending more on the servicing of debt than the debt itself.
 
Bronte said:
I'm so gobsmacked that banks could just loan money this way. It's so irresponsible as to be nearly criminal.
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Well if you dont like that - youre really not gonna like this:

On saturday i was in a well known clothes shop and I took my purchases to the counter. Said purchases came to approximately 140 euro. Lady behind the till said to me 'Do you have a store card?'. 'No' sez I. So she says 'Would you like one, you will automatically get 10% off these purchases?'.
I think to myself, store card, 10% off purchases, why not? (im thinking its one of these loyalty card yoks, that you collect points on).

'OK' I say.
She reaches under the desk for a form then hesitates and says to me 'Now this is a credit card you know?'.
'No - I didnt know, Im not interested, I dont want one, I am not interested in easy credit'.

I paid and left.

Now, if a clothes shop can just offer me a credit card over the counter like that, no credit history check, no knowledge of if Im up to my gills in debt etc...and they are 'luring' me into it with 10% off my purchases - is it any wonder people are in the state they are in with debt!!
 
truthseeker said:
- is it any wonder people are in the state they are in with debt!!
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You choose not to take it, as everyone else has that choice.

Easy credit fueled alot of our problems today. I sometimes feel a tiny bit sorry for those with disproportionate personal debt. But absolutely no time for people blaming the govt, developers, bankers for having debts like 25k cc balances or 40k car loans, with 30k personal loans because their houses have €200 bins or crap on the mantle piece or ride on lwanmowers for thier semi-D. After going on 2 -3 holidays a year. NONE! (there are plenty of these people).
 
truthseeker said:
Now, if a clothes shop can just offer me a credit card over the counter like that, no credit history check,
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Where have you been living, I've often been offered those but I've always declined. Short term gain = long term pain. 20% off today means you pay double or treble for the goods in the long term.

I note they are looking in the UK to tighten up credit card practices. That's what needs to be done in Ireland. They should be slapped with a health warning like cigarettes. Each credit card bill should have a minimum repayment that pays back the capital in a reasonable amount of time, people that never pay back the whole amount in say a 2 year period should have the credit card taken off them and barred from other cards for a period of time and each bill should be clear with a big warning that if you pay off the bill with a minimum repayment it will take you 40 years and 10K interest to repay it and that if you start to default and have a house they may go after you for the house. People need to be more respectful of credit and getting into debt and some people need to be scared of getting into debt because there seems to be a lot of financial idiots out there who need to be saved from themselves and from the VERY sharp practice of banks/credit card companies etc.
 
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