Average solicitor's fees for conveyancing these days?

Re: Average solicitor's fees?

It's none of the above as we don't do standalone sale conveyancing. We would be happy to put you in touch with a panel solicitor to negotiate a fee directly.

If you were buying another house as part of the transaction it would be no. 1.

Sarah

www.rea.ie
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

This discussion has gone slightly off topic, into areas which are covered on other discussions.

If I might summarise, for the benefit of the original poster, the position on likely legal fees for the sale of her house:

1. REA will arrange legal fees of €950 + V.A.T. + outlay on a sale if you are also mortgaging with them;

2. This rate (in my opinion) is highly competitive, but is pretty close to what available in the general legal market (i.e. without necessarily going throught REA.)

3. 2Pack states that a fee of €500\600 (+ V.A.T. + outlay) is relatively easily achievable in the marketplace for legal services. I am frankly dubious. I have studied the ecomonics of running a conveyancing practice (my own) and I do not see how adequate service and adequate profitability can happily co-exist at this price level. However, it is a free market, and certainly it costs very little to shop around.
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

Sarah W of REA asked why her original post was misleading- the original post was:

If you are getting a new mortgage via REA the solicitor fee for the sale, irrespective of the sale price, is €950 + VAT and outlays.

Then she qualified it by saying:

on a SALE the fee is a flat €950 + VAT and outlay. It is not subsidised by commission in any way, shape or fashion.

However, she went on to say:

we don't do standalone sale conveyancing. We would be happy to put you in touch with a panel solicitor to negotiate a fee directly.

My point is simple- your original post was misleading as you seem to suggest and subsequently reiterated this that you can arrange a legal fee on a sale for €950 plus VAT, whereas the actual position is that IF someone approaches you for a mortgage to purchase and happens to be also selling, you will arrange that fee for the sale. That is a very different scenario- the same solicitor is likely to also do the purchase conveyancing AND may well benefit from a commission split depending on the size of the mortgage.

As a solicitor who deals mainly in conveyancing it is damaging to me and to the profession as a whole to allow this type of advertisement go unchallenged so I have persisted in doing so. However as advertising by REA seems to be an accepted feature on Askaboutmoney, no doubt you will continue to post in this fashion.
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

MOB said:
2Pack states that a fee of €500\600 (+ V.A.T. + outlay) is relatively easily achievable in the marketplace for legal services. I am frankly dubious.
we won't fall out over these details MOB :D
I have studied the economics of running a conveyancing practice (my own) and I do not see how adequate service and adequate profitability can happily co-exist at this price level. However, it is a free market, and certainly it costs very little to shop around.
Many ultra ultra efficient practices use cheaper legal executives and not more expensive solicitors to do the work and their chargeout per hour is lower . Thats why.

There is no point paying solicitors rates for legal executives work.
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

Why is it damaging to you Vanilla? And I stil don't "get" why my post is misleading - I clearly stated that the fee to the solictor for a sale is €950 + VAT and outlays and is not subsidised by any commission. What could be clearer that than? The reason we don't offer stand alone conveyancing is that we are a mortgage brokerage!

Sarah

www.rea.ie
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

I don't think I can be any clearer than above. Perhaps you are being disingenuous but to give you the benefit of the doubt, and at the risk of repeating myself, I will try again. You are not offering a stand alone legal fee for a sale- you are offering that fee on condition the client also obtains a mortgage with you for a new purchase. At the very least this is a fee from a solicitor on your panel who can expect to receive more referrals from REA, further it is probable that that solicitor can expect to receive the referral for the new purchase and mortgage, and finally, depending on the size of the mortgage, may even receive a portion of the commission.
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

But in my first post I said IF a client is getting a new mortgage from REA.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one Vanilla but I am still curious as to why you feel the REA fee structure is damaging to you and the profession?

Sarah

www.rea.ie
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

Don't misquote me. I didn't say the fee structure was damaging- I said your, in my opinion misleading, advertisement was damaging. In fact I have already said that the OP and others could well find a similar quotation fee wise without ever going through REA.

This isn't the first time I have disagreed with your posts/adverts. In the interest of clarity to those on this site I will continue to challenge such misleading posts when I can.
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

Perhaps this discussion should be completed in Letting off Steam as I dont see the benefit in continuing it here, to either the OP or other posters that use this site as a reference for mortgage info.
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

Perhaps this discussion should be completed in Letting off Steam as I dont see the benefit in continuing it here, to either the OP or other posters that use this site as a reference for mortgage info.

Must disagree with you on that one. I for one (and I hope many others) have been enlightened in relation to conveyancy costs and those that still practice fee structure which is proportional to property value (a justification I would be grateful to see given).
Vanilla and Sarah are just clarifying their posts.
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

Vanilla said:
Don't misquote me. I didn't say the fee structure was damaging- I said your, in my opinion misleading, advertisement was damaging. In fact I have already said that the OP and others could well find a similar quotation fee wise without ever going through REA.

This isn't the first time I have disagreed with your posts/adverts. In the interest of clarity to those on this site I will continue to challenge such misleading posts when I can.

Apologies - I didn't mean to misquote you. I don't think my post was "advertising" under the T&C of AAM; I was posting details of our fee structure which the original poster may or may not decide to investigate further.

Sarah

www.rea.ie
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

Sarah W- with all due respect, I think you'll find that posting details of your fee structure/product/service is the essence of advertising. Now if you did that in the context of discussing a number of similar services it would be a different matter. It's akin to this writer placing a post saying 'Hey, pm me- I 'll do it or Vanilla & Co will do it for €950 + VAT + outlay '.

SineWave- in relation to fee charging on a percentage or proportionate basis my opinion is that in general it cannot be justified. The legal work involved in for example conveyancing or a probate has no direct correlation to the price or value involved. In my practice I now offer a flat fee for all purchases and sales of houses and for purchase and sales of sites. Although it often happens that I spend much more time on one file than others of a similar nature due to title or other problems I can only hope that it balances out overall. The market demands a flat fee and therefore I have to offer it.
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

Just to come back for a brief further comment on

"fee structure which is proportional to property value (a justification I would be grateful to see given). " I didn't actually say this, and I should perhaps have gone into further detail.

Most solicitors (myself included) no longer charge a fee which is a proportion of the sale price. For most houses in the €160k-500k bracket, I would be charging a fee of about €1200 plus V.A.T. for a sale.

However, when one gets up the value chain a little, the value of the work tends to increase, the level of scrutiny gets a touch more obsessive, and you certainly cannot delegate the work to someone who is quite junior. So my "flat fee" on such a transaction might be a fair bit higher.

For example:

1. At €500k, you have to get a CGT cert to complete the sale (or there will be a 15% withholding from the sale proceeds). Not a big job, but extra work nonetheless.
2. At a mortgage of, say, €1.5m, the interest on the loan cheque is running at nearly a grand a week. Not so bad if you are getting a cheque from BOI\AIB or one of the other lenders who only charge interest when the cheque is cashed. But PTSB charge interest from the day after they send the cheque, and other lenders send the money direct to your account. So you had better be utterly sure that your completion is planned like a military operation, and you are less likely to give yourself the cushion of allowing the money to be drawn down a couple of days before you need it.
3. The contents of a €2m house (if contents are passing) will tend to be more than a fridge, microwave and a power city special offer telly. I have on occasion had to go through a 100 item inventory at contract and again prior to completion.
4. The single reason which contributes most to a higher fee is that when you move up the value chain, you are usually dealing with a client who is happy to pay more. They pay more because they believe it is worth more. My job, in marketing terms, is to ensure that the clients have a transaction experience which justifies this view. These are not uninformed consumers but savvy business people (actually, this is more true in the case of purchases - but I don't have a big pool of old widows selling up in Ballsbridge and paying me silly money out of ignorance, before you ask). The higher value clients are happy to pay a premium knowing that they can ring me out of hours, that I will drop everything to help them when they have something desperately urgent, and that they are getting a senior and experienced person on the job. It is the same reason that the banks can charge more to their high net worth customers under the "private banking" umbrella. In short, on a higher value transaction - like on any other - I charge what the market will bear, and it so happens that this market will bear more than €999 + V.A.T. I love the free market.
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

Excellent post MOB. Service does have a price and I'd be happy to acknowledge that the REA package comprises of customer value and attention to detail but it will not cover visting clients at home at 9pm (althought it has been known ;) ) or reviewing contracts on a Sunday afternoon. I think the market demands both a regular and a premium level of service and both can be satisfied with a justifiable fee scale.

Sarah

www.rea.ie
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

Explanation based on your own business much appreciated and justified MOB.

My query is also aimed at the practices that quote a conveyancy package price based on a proportion of the yet unknown sale value, irrelevant of the financial format (or any detail) that is involved for the sale.
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

SineWave said:
Explanation based on your own business much appreciated and justified MOB.

Well, if you will let them call you at home at all hours you deserve more for the 'service' MOB . I won't argue with that :p
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

I availed of a €950 + vat + outlay offer from Barker Brokers, and yesterday I got a bill for €2700 !!

The house was 2nd hand, 3 years old and cost 470K (mortgage 410K).

On first glance, this looks ridiculous.
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

You really should break down the outlay if you are to justify the 'ridiculous' statement.

We are in the process of purchasing a second hand house and expect outlay of around €800 plus stamp duty on the mortgage of 0.1% of value. The largest cost is land registry fees-regsiter deed-€500.
 
Re: Average solicitor's fees?

monkeyman said:
On first glance, this looks ridiculous.
On first glance it does indeed.

If stamp duty at 7.5% STB is included it should be way higher.

If not why not, is this a remortgage ? We are talking over €1500 worth of outlays excepting stamp duty . How are they broken down ???
 
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