Health Insurance Availing of Fair Deal loan scheme in case where parent and child are co-owners of home

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mallow2

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My parents are elderly and live together in the family home. The home belonged to my mother initially but ~20 years ago she put one of my siblings on as a co-owner. As time passes, I am concerned about the implications of this arrangement for their long-term care.
For example, if my mother needed to avail of the Fair Deal (nursing home loan) scheme, would she need the explicit permission of the co-owner (her adult child)? I have looked at the Fair Deal information online but their case studies seem to only refer to co-ownership of the family home with a spouse.
More worrisome, if my father were to need nursing care could he avail of the Fair Deal Scheme listing the family home as an asset? As I understand it, in putting my sibling on as a co-owner my mother included a clause to say that my father could live in the family home as long as he needs to (but otherwise he gave up his inheritance right). But residing in the family home and availing of it as an asset are different issues. My sibling does not live with my parents. Any advice welcome.
 
As I understand it, the fair deal scheme is not dependant upon having a family home. Each person is assessed based on their needs and assets. If you have a share in a house, then that is part of the assessment, and is taken into account towards what you can pay for your care, along with your income and liquid assets. In order to be realistic, the fair deal scheme allows you to defer paying any portion of the bill that is based upon the calculation of the value of the family home, and instead, they register an interest in the home (up to a certain maximum %, I think 22%). So if your mother has a % interest in the family home, that must be listed as an asset, and I'm guessing, some decent proof that this is the case. If your father has no ownership of the house, then there is no charge for him to pay on that - just his other assets and income. You will of course have to prove to the HSE people that your father has no ownership of the family home.
 
mallow2 said:
For example, if my mother needed to avail of the Fair Deal (nursing home loan) scheme, would she need the explicit permission of the co-owner (her adult child)?

More worrisome, if my father were to need nursing care could he avail of the Fair Deal......................
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The explicit permission of a co-owner is only requested for the nursing home loan, see page 10. At the bottom it says ‘’The absence of prior consent in writing of a joint owner does not render void the making of a Charge in favour of the HSE’’ This would suggest permission of a co-owner is not a necessity.
https://www2.hse.ie/file-library/fair-deal/nursing-home-support-scheme-application-form.pdf

For Fair Deal purposes, as a couple each of your parents will be assessed on half their joint income and assets regardless of who earned the income, or whose name an asset is in. Your mother owns 50% of a house, your sibling owns the other 50%. In this case Fair Deal would consider your parents jointly own 50% of the house. One or both of your parents could avail of Fair Deal, 25% of the house value would be assessable for each.
Page 6 here; https://www2.hse.ie/file-library/fair-deal/nursing-homes-support-scheme-information-booklet.pdf
 
Thanks twofor1, that second bit was also puzzling me. I assume from what you say that if my father needed nursing care while my mother was still alive, then the 50% of the home that belongs to my mother would count toward his care (25%) as her spouse under the Fair Deal terms. But if my mother passed away before my father then I think that co-ownership (mother/adult child) means that the home now becomes 100% the property of the adult child (my sibling) although my father would have residency rights. Then I assume he would no longer claim any portion of the home as an asset. Bit morbid to be even thinking of all this ...
 
mallow2 said:
But if my mother passed away before my father then I think that co-ownership (mother/adult child) means that the home now becomes 100% the property of the adult child (my sibling) although my father would have residency rights. Then I assume he would no longer claim any portion of the home as an asset.
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I don’t know the answer, it is not a typical scenario.

If your sibling inherited your parents 50% share of the house is that then a disposed of asset and as such is it assessible ? I suspect it is, but I don’t know for sure.

With a couple when one dies, the HSE reassess on the basis that the remaining member of the couple now owns all their joint assets. I suspect they will still do this in the case you outline, but I don’t know for sure.

If your mother passed away first, your father would not be precluded in any way from Fair Deal. Worst case scenario would be your father being assessed and availing of the loan on the 50% of the house value that they as a couple owned. Fair Deal should still be very beneficial to him.

Separately, under the Succession Act does your father as a spouse not have a Legal Right Share of 1/3, irrespective of what your mothers will says ? Maybe someone can clarify.
 
Thanks twofor1, I think that now puts my mind at rest - as I was concerned as to whether he could still benefit from the Scheme.
 
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