Availability & marketing of alcohol

[ubiquitous]

the last place parents should be taking their kids is into a pub surrounding.

I disagree profoundly. When their time comes, I certainly hope my own kids choose to go to and drink in pubs. A pub may have its faults, but as a social venue for young adults, it certainly beats drinking in a local field or forest.

ps I have no involvement or vested interest in a pub or in the drinks industry.

 

[Chamar]

I disagree profoundly. When their time comes, I certainly hope my own kids choose to go to and drink in pubs. A pub may have its faults, but as a social venue for young adults, it certainly beats drinking in a local field or forest.

ps I have no involvement or vested interest in a pub or in the drinks industry.

I think the poster meant kids as in children.

 

[ubiquitous]

That was my understanding also. I think it is healthy for kids to experience pubs as kids (and certainly not when accompanied by drunk parents as sometimes happens). In the long run it should help them develop a mature attitude to drinking and pub culture.

 

[Cati76]

Personally I don't see what's sinister about it. The advertisement extolls the virtues of dining out in pubs. Surely any attempt at a transition from purely drinking to "café bar style establishments is to be welcomed? Not saying that children should be in pubs all the time or at every available opportunity but I don't agree that they should never be brought either. It could be argued that totally shielding them from these places is not necessarily conducive to the development of a balanced and healthy attitude to alcohol?

I think so too. If children are brought to the pub as a place for meeting people, have a nice family night out together, and alcohol is not the centre of the night, and it's consumed with moderation, surely their attitude towards drinking would be somehow different.
As a kid I was taken to "bars", where alcohol was served, with my family, and seeing my mom and dad having a glass or two of wine while having dinner, but not getting drunk, taught me to have the attitude I have towards alcohol today....Something you drink with moderation, because you want to not because you are forced into by your friends....and if possible with food around....People should learn to be more sociable without the need of getting drunk, you can still have fun without drinking!!!

 

[ClubMan]

I happen to think alot of people have a problem.

Do you have any hard date to back that hunch up?

And please don't tell me drink is not addictive because it is.

It's not addictive for the vast majority of people who can control their consumption - probably c. 95% of those people who consume alcohol judging by the extrapolated statistics . I can't find any more authoritative statistics for Ireland on this issue. If anybody else can please post them.

Ireland tops the polls when it comes to drink

Not quite according to this.

but maybe it's not such a good thing and maybe it's not so harmless as the ads like to make out.

Once again - do you feel that you are being forced to overindulge by advertisements and promptions or is it actually a free personal choice?

Don't get me wrong, I drink. Probably a little too much even (although its hard to say given our attitudes). But I happen to think that alcohol is not how it's marketed and destroys many, many lives in many different ways. Personally, I'd love for them to ban the ads, the supermarket selling, the sponsorships, the crates and the promo.

 

[Chamar]

Clubman, I write posts based on what I see/hear/read and my general experience. I'm not going to go trawling the web for statistics (from the likes of the Irish Brewers Association....) to satisfy you - this is a internet forum not a presentation to government. I'm allowed to think alot of people have a problem with drink based on my experience of living here, living abroad etc. You say drink is not addictive for 95% of people who drink - fine - I'm saying alcohol is addictive for 5% then. If these people have serious drink problems consider the people who make up their familes and friends and you can imagine number of people negatively affected are dramatically increased. I don't remember any ads (private or public) that talk about this. You say Ireland doesn't top the polls when it comes to drinking - again sorry - I've seen plenty that say we do but anyway....

You neglected to respond to this part of my my post: You keep talking about personal choice, and I agree with you, but it's naive to think that constantly forcing people to make that choice isn't going to result in people drinking when maybe they ordinarily wouldn't. What about cigarettes? Do you think that if fags were advertised and promoted in the way drink is there would be no more people smoking?

Lastly read this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3537387.stm

 

[ClubMan]

Clubman, I write posts based on what I see/hear/read and my general experience. I'm not going to go trawling the web for statistics (from the likes of the Irish Brewers Association....)

Independent, objective statistical information is usually a better basis on which to form opinions than hearsay, hunches and anecdotal evidence. Note that only part of the FinFacts report referred to IBA statistics and the main part referred to OECD statistics.

I'm allowed to think alot of people have a problem with drink based on my experience of living here, living abroad etc.

Think what you like but expect to be challenged if you can't back your assertions up with actual evidence.

You say drink is not addictive for 95% of people who drink

Not quite what I said but never mind...

I'm saying alcohol is addictive for 5% then. If these people have serious drink problems consider the people who make up their familes and friends and you can imagine number of people negatively affected are dramatically increased.

I agree - but what has this got to do with advertising and promotion of alcoholic products? Do you honestly believe that (m)any of the 5% become alcoholics because of these factors?

You say Ireland doesn't top the polls when it comes to drinking - again sorry - I've seen plenty that say we do but anyway....

It would be helpful if you could substantiate this claim rather than expecting others to simply take your word for it so.

but it's naive to think that constantly forcing people to make that choice isn't going to result in people drinking when maybe they ordinarily wouldn't.

What!? Who is being forced to drink when they ordinarily would not? And how?

What about cigarettes? Do you think that if fags were advertised and promoted in the way drink is there would be no more people smoking?

This discussion is about alcohol not cigarettes.

Lastly read this http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3537387.stm

The answer is a complex jigsaw of brain chemicals, personality and genetics.

No mention of advertising there!

 

[Humpback]

Independent, objective statistical information is usually a better basis on which to form opinions than hearsay, hunches and anecdotal evidence. Note that only part of the FinFacts report referred to IBA statistics and the main part referred to OECD statistics.

I think that it's been found here before (if not other discussion forums) that FinFacts is hardly the source to go to for "Independent, objective statistical information". Was this piece referred to a reference to another article, or an "opinion piece"?

 

[ClubMan]

If you click in the link you will see what I was referring to. Included was a table of OECD statistics which I trust are dependable. At least more dependable than individual hunches and opinions.

 

[casiopea]

I agree - but what has this got to do with advertising and promotion of alcoholic products? Do you honestly believe that (m)any of the 5% become alcoholics because of these factors?
It would be helpful if you could substantiate this claim rather than expecting others to simply take your word for it so.

The answer is a complex jigsaw of brain chemicals, personality and genetics.

No mention of advertising there!

Hi ClubMan,

I think the OP is not saying that advertising alcohol is causing addication to alcohol, he's saying that because of its addictive nature (to some) and the damage it has caused (to many) he'd like to see less advertising of alcohol and more awareness (and promotion around the awareness) of the damage it can do.

Its obviously up to the OP to clarify that, but I think you're slightly missing his point.

cas.

 

[ClubMan]

he's saying that because of its addictive nature (to some) and the damage it has caused (to many) he'd like to see less advertising of alcohol

Actually he wants

... them to ban the ads, the supermarket selling, the sponsorships, the crates and the promo.

Prohibition light by the sounds of it. For what it's worth - and it's merely anecdotal - few, if any, of the alcoholics that I know are obviously influenced by advertising or promotions in their choice of drinks or the amount that they consume.

 

[Chamar]

Hi ClubMan,

I think the OP is not saying that advertising alcohol is causing addication to alcohol, he's saying that because of its addictive nature (to some) and the damage it has caused (to many) he'd like to see less advertising of alcohol and more awareness (and promotion around the awareness) of the damage it can do.

Its obviously up to the OP to clarify that, but I think you're slightly missing his point.

cas.

Thank you Casiopea that is what I am saying.

By the way clubman, my experiences ARE evidence as I speak only for myself.

 

[DrMoriarty]

Chamar's last post slightly edited, and a few subsequent posts deleted. Can we please keep this 'on-topic', and reasonably civil? I just hate confrontation..!

 

[casiopea]

For what it's worth - and it's merely anecdotal - few, if any, of the alcoholics that I know are obviously influenced by advertising or promotions in their choice of drinks or the amount that they consume.

I completely agree with you, I think everyone would. I think alcohol like cigarettes would not be effected by a ban on advertising, I think the only thing advertising does would be encourage someone to choose beer brand A over beer brand B. They are still going to buy the beer even if there were no ads.