Auschwitz

[bullbars]

Bullbars the suicide bombings above all convince me that I would never have anything in common with that culture or any sympathy for it. It's not that they are evil, it's not that, it's just beyond my comprehension.

Suicide bombing is not a "culture". It is not something that is instilled in every Muslim or Palestinian. Your comments are exactly along the same lines of that genocidal abomination Ayelet Shaked. You seem happy to side with a state that employs torture tactics stemming from the 19th century and it's a perverse train of thought.

It's a culture which produces young men and women to do that, that glorifies and rewards their families. Unfortunately, whilst of course those who actually do suicide bomb are in a minority, this is Palestinian culture - anti human.

So you have more in common with a state that uses its cowardly armed forces to bomb from distance? Again how is it more anti-human than the Israeli artillery that does more damage and is indiscriminate in its destruction? Your remark on sympathy is unsurprisingly disgusting.

And this really is quite unique (the notorious kamikaze pilots excepted).

Nonsense. Suicide bombers have been prevalent throughout history - Japan as you noted /Chinese suicide squads / Mujahideen / Viet Cong / Tamil Tigers / Peoples Will etc. as well as self immolation in pursuit of a cause.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Bullbars I can understand aerial bombardment - it is unfortunately an acceptable element of modern warfare. I think I could have been the pilot who bombed Hiroshima. But suicide bombing or suicide flying into tall buildings - I just don't get that. I could never have any empathy with a society that glorifies and cultivates suicide bombers - it's completely alien to me. From what I gleaned from the Israelis I met when I was at a conference in Jerusalem a long time ago, they are just like me, same aspirations, same human emotions, same Western thought processes, I felt sorry for their predicament.

If the cult of the suicide bomber ever "wins out" then I know my way of life has been lost as well.

 

[Purple]

Terming the actions of the Israeli’s as merely “excessive” completely seeks to minimise their true role and intent. It has been a state back land grab since its inception. And it has been carried out by successive Government’s, it’s nothing new to them

OK, so you can't show where I described all Palestinians as terrorists and yet you have not withdrawn your remarks.

Your labelling of Palestinans simply as Islamic highlights your own evident one-dimensional view – do the Palestinian Christians simply get landed in to the Islamic terrorist group?

The population of the Palestinian territories is 99% Muslim and 00.7% Christian. None of that 00.7% are in Hamas or Islamic Jihad. As I am talking about Palestinian terrorists and not all Palestinians the 00.7% that is Christian and the 00.3% that is "other" is not relevant. Since we all agree that not all Muslim Palestinians are terrorists you know that I am not talking about most of the Muslim population either.

Hamas have been excessive in their methods at times…that’s an acceptable description of terrorism, right?
They have undoubtably been guilty of utilising human shields when it suits them and hijacked vital civilian supply tunnels for weapons smuggling jeopardising their humanitarian intent and essential value. I would condemn some but not all of their actions. Israel has a habit of trying to present it situation as the "underdog" fighting for survival, yet the numbers of Palestinians killed in the last circa 25 years show Israel are top of the charts with a kill ratio of 6 to 1.

OK, so you will not unequivocally condemn Palestinian terrorism.

Why only bring up only Palestinian terrorists though? There were Jewish terrorist groups; at times lead by two prominent Israeli’s who went on to serve as Prime Ministers.

There are indeed. I have no time for the government of Israel or most of it's members.

Your retorts get more pathetic and your perception of the dispute there is unsurprisingly perverse.

Your language is becoming increasingly offensive and your biased and one-eyed view of the region and the conflict ignores the reality of the situation. For someone who spent so much time in the region you have a remarkably shallow knowledge of the history and politics of the how's and why's.

The Palestinian people are very badly lead and have no friends in the region. The only country who benefits from a peaceful settlement is Israel and yet their bigoted leaders do all they can to perpetuate the conflict. The Arab and Persian countries in the region have no interest in peace and every reason to perpetuate the conflict.
You do not seem to realise that or to see the bigger picture. They are pawns in a cruel geopolitical game.Your views are naive and biased as you either fail to see that or choose to ignore it.

 

[bullbars]

Bullbars I can understand aerial bombardment - it is unfortunately an acceptable element of modern warfare.

So should we just re-arm the Palestinians to level the playing field, would that make they’re assaults much more acceptable to you?

The fact is as Israel retains the status quo over a poorer people they are forced to use crude and more medieval methods.

It wouldn’t be so unfortunate if Israel just stopped it, but that’s not they will do.

But suicide bombing or suicide flying into tall buildings - I just don't get that. I could never have any empathy with a society that glorifies and cultivates suicide bombers - it's completely alien to me. .

It may come as a shock to you but not all Palestinians are suicidal bombers. Your repeated assertions on this are racist, bigoted and simply wrong.

From what I gleaned from the Israelis I met when I was at a conference in Jerusalem a long time ago, they are just like me, same aspirations, same human emotions, same Western thought processes, I felt sorry for their predicament. .

So the fox that built the henhouse is feeling a little vulnerable? Usual tripe.

They have never challenged a government that commits human rights atrocities daily since the states inception but as long as those atrocities are not against them they are happy. Shocker – I’ll alert the media.


Are the aspirations of the Palestinians just as noble, to live without indiscriminate criminal actions committed by those that rule? Israelis are humans too and also have emotions. Your archaic views of a populous have denigrated into revulsive preposterous arguments – “I met some Jews that were humans, ergo, the other side mustn’t be”.

 

[Purple]

Should the indigenous South Africans have been happy with their lot and kept quiet?
Should the Native Americans have stood aside and be merrily wiped out?
Should the Irish people have accepted British rule and just been happy being controlled from London?
Should the Chinese have just opened the door for the Japanese in 1937?
Would you recommend these groups to ask nicely next time?

Given that the land was Jewish first and they were dispossessed by an invading force are you asking that in the context of the Palestinians or the Jews?
Anyway, how on earth to you draw a parallel between the Irish under British rule and the Japanese invasion of China?
Can you not see the difference between the two?
The situation in Israel is even more complex. As I pointed out above, if you support the Palestinians then you must support the Unionists in the North. Their claim is similar though the Unionist claim dates back further and the population flows are much older.

 

[Purple]

It may come as a shock to you but not all Palestinians are suicidal bombers. Your repeated assertions on this are racist, bigoted and simply wrong.

He hasn't said that once and you know it. Your repeated attempts to establish straw man arguments is disgraceful.

 

[Purple]

Bullbars I can understand aerial bombardment - it is unfortunately an acceptable element of modern warfare. I think I could have been the pilot who bombed Hiroshima. But suicide bombing or suicide flying into tall buildings - I just don't get that. I could never have any empathy with a society that glorifies and cultivates suicide bombers - it's completely alien to me. From what I gleaned from the Israelis I met when I was at a conference in Jerusalem a long time ago, they are just like me, same aspirations, same human emotions, same Western thought processes, I felt sorry for their predicament.

If the cult of the suicide bomber ever "wins out" then I know my way of life has been lost as well.

You should bear in mind that the Palestinian people live under viscous and extremist governments in the West Bank and Gaza and all opposition is ruthlessly suppressed. Their leaders care only about their "war" against Israel. They do not want peace or a two state solution and have no respect for their own people and think nothing about seeing them die in their deranged games. They know that the nutters in Israel will respond with disproportionate force, that's why they sent 3000 rockets into Israel; to provoke a response and use the blood of their people to damage Israel.
If their people speak out against them they will be killed, unlike the one million Palestinian citizens of Israel or the large proportion of Israeli Jews that oppose their own government. Such opposition would be unthinkable under Palestinian rule. That's why Israel is the lesser of two evils.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Bullbars maybe you don't quite get my point. Aerial bombardment, suicide bombardment, same thing so far as the objective is concerned, I'm not condemning the latter on that score. What is completely alien to my way of thinking is the willingness to commit suicide, and a society that encourages and glorifies in that. I certainly wouldn't like to live in a society with a million people most of whom think that way and too many of whom have actually acted in that way. I think I would support discriminatory laws of self defence in such a situation.