Attitude to violence

[Purple]

Interesting case study on how people react to a men hitting a woman and then a woman hitting a man here.

 

[Sue Ellen]

On a par with ignoring 'homeless' man but helping man in business suit

 

[Purple]

That's shocking Sue Ellen but I think the acceptability of violence by women towards men is a deeper one. From the diet coke advert where a woman slaps her boyfriend in the face because he took some of her drink (imagine if the roles were reversed?) to those terrible billboard ads saying It's a crime to hit a woman, as if it wasn't a crime to hit a man.
Equality doesn't mean dominance and hitting another person is not ok.

 

[Sue Ellen]

Equality doesn't mean dominance and hitting another person is not ok.

Very true. The sickening part of that video is where people start laughing when she hits him. What's funny about violence

 

[Purple]

Very true. The sickening part of that video is where people start laughing when she hits him. What's funny about violence

The real damage is not physical with domestic violence, it’s a psychological deconstruction of a person’s self worth.
I know a guy who had to get skin grafts on his legs after his wife threw a kettle of boiling water at him. She was aiming higher. It went to court. She got off. They are now separated. She has the house and the kids as he is now suffering from depression. Apparently it went on for years. It was her father who called the police after the last attack.
What’s most upsetting is that I’ve known him for years and had no idea of what he was going through. His wife was utterly plausible and nice when in company.

 

[so-crates]

The real damage is not physical with domestic violence, it’s a psychological deconstruction of a person’s self worth.
I know a guy who had to get skin grafts on his legs after his wife threw a kettle of boiling water at him. She was aiming higher. It went to court. She got off. They are now separated. She has the house and the kids as he is now suffering from depression. Apparently it went on for years. It was her father who called the police after the last attack.
What’s most upsetting is that I’ve known him for years and had no idea of what he was going through. His wife was utterly plausible and nice when in company.

Unfortunately that is all too common whether the perpetrator is male or female, their treatment of people other than their victim is usually unremarkable and pleasant - they don't look like abusers. I am sure it must also contribute to the sense of isolation - the feeling that you are the only one marked out. I guess it is a characteristic of all types of personal abuse really when you think about it. Part of any abusers modus operandi is to isolate the victim. It must be awful. Most domestic violence is never noticed until the evidence becomes too clear to dispute and it usually has been ongoing for some time.

 

[Purple]

Unfortunately that is all too common whether the perpetrator is male or female, their treatment of people other than their victim is usually unremarkable and pleasant - they don't look like abusers. I am sure it must also contribute to the sense of isolation - the feeling that you are the only one marked out. I guess it is a characteristic of all types of personal abuse really when you think about it. Part of any abusers modus operandi is to isolate the victim. It must be awful. Most domestic violence is never noticed until the evidence becomes too clear to dispute and it usually has been ongoing for some time.

The difference is that female victims get sympathy and support and male victims get laughed at.

 

[Purple]

Safe Ireland have just conducted a very useful survey of one days statistics for the number of women and children who looked for help because they were victims of domestic violence. The figures are stark. According to their report 467 women and 229 children received domestic abuse support in just one day last year. They run a campaign called "[broken link removed] to discourage male abusers. It's a pity they have so little interest in male victims. At what age is it no longer acceptable to be a male victim of domestic violence?

How many of the 229 children were abused by their mother? Maybe none. Maybe kids who are abused by their mother aren't really victims.

If the message sent out is that only men perpetrate domestic violence then where does a child who is abused and beaten by their mother go for help? At 8 or 10 they are victims. By 16 should they have "manned up"? What if at 16 they snap and hit her back. Are they now the abuser?

What a great message to teach young men. The ironic thing is that the very same people who think these campaigns are great will complain about young men not talking about how they feel and bottling things up.

 

[Sunny]

Safe Ireland have just conducted a very useful survey of one days statistics for the number of women and children who looked for help because they were victims of domestic violence. The figures are stark. According to their report 467 women and 229 children received domestic abuse support in just one day last year. They run a campaign called "[broken link removed] to discourage male abusers. It's a pity they have so little interest in male victims. At what age is it no longer acceptable to be a male victim of domestic violence?

How many of the 229 children were abused by their mother? Maybe none. Maybe kids who are abused by their mother aren't really victims.

If the message sent out is that only men perpetrate domestic violence then where does a child who is abused and beaten by their mother go for help? At 8 or 10 they are victims. By 16 should they have "manned up"? What if at 16 they snap and hit her back. Are they now the abuser?

What a great message to teach young men. The ironic thing is that the very same people who think these campaigns are great will complain about young men not talking about how they feel and bottling things up.

I agree with you. It's a very odd road to go down for a domestic violence campaign. Surely in this day and age, it is accepted that some men are victims of domestic violence. Should they just 'man up'?

 

[S.L.F]

Interesting case study on how people react to a men hitting a woman and then a woman hitting a man here.

Sorry Purple I've been extremely busy with real life over the last couple of years and only got the chance to look at the e-mail address associated with AAM recently.

I am very involved with the Men's Human Right Movement and that video was made by a group called Mankind Initiative who have the backing of a lady called Erin Pizzey (she started the first domestic abuse refuge in the UK for women) and has stated hundreds if not thousands of times that women can be just as nasty and evil as men can be.

Domestic abuse is an inter-generational problem and can only be helped if people start to realise that all people need to be helped, both male and female.

 

[S.L.F]

The difference is that female victims get sympathy and support and male victims get laughed at.

They are also deliberately ignored by government and by just about everyone who can help.

Safe Ireland have just conducted a very useful survey of one days statistics for the number of women and children who looked for help because they were victims of domestic violence. The figures are stark. According to their report 467 women and 229 children received domestic abuse support in just one day last year. They run a campaign called "[broken link removed] to discourage male abusers. It's a pity they have so little interest in male victims. At what age is it no longer acceptable to be a male victim of domestic violence?

How many of the 229 children were abused by their mother? Maybe none. Maybe kids who are abused by their mother aren't really victims.

If the message sent out is that only men perpetrate domestic violence then where does a child who is abused and beaten by their mother go for help? At 8 or 10 they are victims. By 16 should they have "manned up"? What if at 16 they snap and hit her back. Are they now the abuser?

What a great message to teach young men. The ironic thing is that the very same people who think these campaigns are great will complain about young men not talking about how they feel and bottling things up.

They are run by feminists, they are happy to deliberately ignore all male victims.

Did you know that the domestic abuse shelters will not take a boy over the age of 12?

 

[blueband]

They are also deliberately ignored by government and by just about everyone who can help.



They are run by feminists, they are happy to deliberately ignore all male victims.

Did you know that the domestic abuse shelters will not take a boy over the age of 12?

I didn't know that but it seems totally unfair.

 

[S.L.F]

I didn't know that but it seems totally unfair.

I've been a busy man for the last 3 years and the more I find out about domestic abuse the more sickened I become.

 

[S.L.F]

I didn't know that but it seems totally unfair.

This video was made by one of the people I work with in the Men's Human Rights Movement

 

[Purple]

They are also deliberately ignored by government and by just about everyone who can help.

I think that as a society we used to ignore all forms of domestic abuse, be it physical, sexual or psychological. The feminist movement is not a homogeneous group; it is a vast number of organisations who have agitated for change in a vast number of areas. Most are absolutely legitimate and rational, a small proportion are extremist and radical. As a whole they have done a very good job of changing societal attitudes to abuse, sexism and employment equality. The fact that men have been left behind on the issue of domestic abuse is not their fault, at least not the vast majority of women who consider themselves to be feminists. Their understanding is that feminism means equality. By that definition I am a feminist, as are just about every other man I know. I am also in favour of full equality for gay people.

I am for equality, in theory and in practice.

They are run by feminists, they are happy to deliberately ignore all male victims.

Their function is to help female victims of domestic abuse. If they receive state funding them the state should ensure that they give proportionate funding to male victims but that’s not the function of the shelter.

An organisation that helps victims who are subjected to abuse or attack because they are gay doesn’t have an anti-heterosexual agenda, they simply aren’t there to support those people.

There are anti-men feminists, just as there are anti-women members of the Men’s Rights Movement but both groups, if they can be called that, do important work so neither should be subjected to sweeping or overarching classification or vilification.

 

[S.L.F]

I think that as a society we used to ignore all forms of domestic abuse, be it physical, sexual or psychological. The feminist movement is not a homogeneous group; it is a vast number of organisations who have agitated for change in a vast number of areas. Most are absolutely legitimate and rational, a small proportion are extremist and radical. As a whole they have done a very good job of changing societal attitudes to abuse, sexism and employment equality. The fact that men have been left behind on the issue of domestic abuse is not their fault, at least not the vast majority of women who consider themselves to be feminists. Their understanding is that feminism means equality. By that definition I am a feminist, as are just about every other man I know. I am also in favour of full equality for gay people.

It is well known that the radical feminists are the "extremists" of the feminist movement.

The radical feminists are the ones who control Women's Aid, Rape Crisis Centres and various other money making charities.

They are also the ones who forced Erin Pizzey into exile because she would not stop talking about how domestic abuse was not a "Gender issue".

I am for equality, in theory and in practice.

Me too...which is exactly why I am against feminism.

Their function is to help female victims of domestic abuse. If they receive state funding them the state should ensure that they give proportionate funding to male victims but that’s not the function of the shelter.

An organisation that helps victims who are subjected to abuse or attack because they are gay doesn’t have an anti-heterosexual agenda, they simply aren’t there to support those people.

There are anti-men feminists, just as there are anti-women members of the Men’s Rights Movement but both groups, if they can be called that, do important work so neither should be subjected to sweeping or overarching classification or vilification.

Their function is to make money under the guise of helping women while at the same time putting the boot into men and masculinity.

I posted a while ago that feminists have been very busy ensuring that men do not get help.

Further evidence of the antipathy that womens groups have to the concept of gender symmetry was provided by the CEDAW Shadow Report of the Women's Human Rights Alliance Ireland 2004:

In Ireland the traditional viewpoint that domestic violence is a private matter rather than a social crime has been slow to change. Resistance to moving forward public policy in this domain has been strong and recent years in Ireland have seen a new level of hostility develop towards the issue as vocal groups argue that men are as likely to be victims of domestic violence as women. Our workshop participants find that the net effect of this lobby has been a tendency in policy arenas not to address gender in regard to the issue of violence against women. ... Considerable time and energy are devoted by women's groups and front line services, including those in our consultation, countering this backlash - to the detriment of service provision and the support of women experiencing violence.

They spend time and effort ensuring men do not get help.

 

[mandelbrot]

As an outsider looking in, who thankfully lives my life oblivious to the issues you're talking about, it seems (and the last few lines of your last post pretty much drive it home for me):

Everyone with sufficient interest to be involved/working/campaigning in this area is either 1) Male , or 2) Female.

Depending on which they are they seem to prefer expending their energy bickering (here or elsewhere) about who does how much of what kind of violence to whom (or that she gets less of a sentence than him for this, that or the other), than actually directing their energy in a constructive way.

It's kind of sad, but an insight into human nature I suppose. The fact that you're on a crusade here, despite the fact that the few people who've engaged with you (and if you look at our posting histories you'll see Purple, Bronte, Latrade and I are all very different people in our views / outlooks, and I'd hazard to say we cover a good age range too) have all independently formed the view that you're a bit "radical" yourself, says it all.

You really are simply Letting Off Steam here, you're not winning any arguments or confounding any feminists.

I'm still confused by the way and can't tell if it's feminists, or feminism, or women generally that you have a problem with, or all, or some, or it depends.

And I'm sure we've all been busy in the last 3 years, for gods sake stop saying that! Although, while your eyes have been opening my vision has definitely disimproved, so thanks to you I've a reminder in my phone to call Specsavers.

 

[S.L.F]

As an outsider looking in, who thankfully lives my life oblivious to the issues you're talking about, it seems (and the last few lines of your last post pretty much drive it home for me):

Being oblivious is something lots of people are good at.....till they run into the brick wall of injustice and they come looking for people like the MHRM.

Everyone with sufficient interest to be involved/working/campaigning in this area is either 1) Male , or 2) Female.

I think human is enough of a description really.

Depending on which they are they seem to prefer expending their energy bickering (here or elsewhere) about who does how much of what kind of violence to whom (or that she gets less of a sentence than him for this, that or the other), than actually directing their energy in a constructive way.

I'm not bickering here, I'm pointing out facts which people don't seem to be interested in.

It's kind of sad, but an insight into human nature I suppose. The fact that you're on a crusade here, despite the fact that the few people who've engaged with you (and if you look at our posting histories you'll see Purple, Bronte, Latrade and I are all very different people in our views / outlooks, and I'd hazard to say we cover a good age range too) have all independently formed the view that you're a bit "radical" yourself, says it all.

You really are simply Letting Off Steam here, you're not winning any arguments or confounding any feminists.

Just because you refuse to look beyond your comfort zone does not mean you are correct.

I'm still confused by the way and can't tell if it's feminists, or feminism, or women generally that you have a problem with, or all, or some, or it depends.

Just so we can clear this up once and for all.

Feminism =/= women.

I loathe feminism.