At a career crossroads, seeking advice

AlbacoreA said:
Same here. They mostly in my experience get the same flexibility regarding remote working as well. All the ones I know are developers which the Poundman isn't, though.
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Plenty of PM's from what I can see as well and a number managing run operations so you end up with a Govt bodies 3rd party suppliers being managed by contractors or staff bodyshopped in from the big consultancy firms.
 
Have you thought about taking the CFA (Certified Financial Analyst) course at all ?

This is a combination of training in both financial analysis and data analysis with a view to making investment decisions for high net-worth individuals or institutions/investment funds/etc.

It's done by self-study over about 3 years with 3 separate sets of exams. The exams are mostly multiple-choice in format.
Naturally you will need employer cooperation in relation to some time off for study in the days up to and including the exams.

https://www.cfainstitute.org/en/programs/cfa/curriculum

Although the attrition rate is high - I believe that only 20% of the starters get through all 3 sets of exams in the first sitting - the future is quite bright for those who eventually get through. There is a period of relevant work experience before you get chartered status. This is described here

https://www.cfainstitute.org/en/membership/apply/work-experience-self-assessment

and can be done concurrent with your time when studying for the programme.

Given your experience to date, personal situation and preference for an analytical rather than a people managing job, it might be an avenue worth exploring.

Few CFAs are making less than €100,000 per annum. And that doesn't include performance-related bonus.

Scouting around I see some firms are willing to train suitable graduates (surely has to include IT graduates) towards CFA qualification

 
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RedOnion said:
Do you have a link to anything reputable to back up that number? In Ireland.
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No, RedOnion - I can't provide a link to hard data on CFA salaries.

As you will appreciate the nature of CFA salaries depends a lot on the nature of their employment and scale of the investment funds at their disposal. (I am excluding self-employed CFAs, e.g. people involved in financial advice to high net-worth individuals and/or their enterprises, since I think that PoundMan does not want to expose himself to the risks of this avenue given his personal responsibilities and his preference to maintain a good pension.)
Investment performance - a team metric more than an individual metric - is also a big factor in bonuses paid to investment fund management staff.

You will also appreciate that the salary scales quoted for CFAs (or anything else for that matter) by recruitment agencies are significantly lower than the reality in order to dampen candidate expectations and attract employer clients.

The question might be an interesting thread in itself.
 
Yes, in my experience, saying very few CFAs earn less than 100k is a completely made up figure.

Made up, yes. Yet I wonder if this estimate is all that unrealistic.

Salary is not the sort of thing they'd be in a rush to talk about anyway - that sort of talk draws too many flies and gold-diggers.
The basic salary for a new CFA (excluding bonus, that is) is likely to be between €50,000 and €60,000. This I say as they would hardly be doing it for less than this with the sort of quals that most CFAs have prior to going on the programme - BSc (Econ), degrees in finance/accounting, commerce, banking, IT disciplines, professional quals like AC(C/M)A, CPU, etc. And a good share of these will already be working in support roles for investment funds as they work their way through the 3 sets of exams.

The very existence of employers who are willing to fund CFAs-in-training betokens a strong - albeit with due risk - industry. The very acceptance of the need for diligent data analysis, investment growth modelling, investment strategies and hedges in today's world is proof of the lucrative benefits of these methodologies. Staff working in competitive areas of the financial sector have traditionally been awarded performance-related bonuses and substantial ones too: if the current employer isn't giving them the staff will move to one who does. In this way it would not be unthinkable that a CFA offering useful supporting analysis would be seen as a vital member of a successful investment management team and given a proportionate bonus. I would not see €40k - €50k as unusual for a financial data analyst/investment modeller in today's financial services sector. We are not talking about lowly bank managers here.
 
I know of IT staff in TU Dublin that do blend working 2 days on site and 3 from home so might be worth keeping an eye there. It's a big organisation so the bigger the team the more flexibility there might be.
 
EvenStevens said:
I know of IT staff in TU Dublin that do blend working 2 days on site and 3 from home so might be worth keeping an eye there. It's a big organisation so the bigger the team the more flexibility there might be.
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Perhaps they aren't helpdesk staff though? Most public sector (Civil Service, Local Authorities) only allow a maximum of two days remote working but I suppose Universities are kind of closer to semi-state and also tends to have higher salary for IT Tech Support roles.
 
Hi Poundman,

As someone with circa 25 years in the IT industry here's my 2c:

You seem to be very hung up about the public sector. With your degree, skills & interests I think you are missing an opportunity to earn considerably more income...based on your interests in Cyber, automation and securing devices, I would consider a niche but rapidly growing role called DevSecOps. I would put a Cyber / InfoSec certification way ahead of a masters degree too - they are generally multiple choice based (which you prefer) and also a lot more marketable.

I would also skill up on a language like Python. This would also help you land roles in a related field called SRE (Site Reliability Engineering) which would also be a good option for you given your experience in fixing issues in Tech Support.

The link below is for the UK market but I find it very useful for telling which way the wind is blowing and to get an idea of how contractor rates / perm salaries for diffent roles compare with each other:

www.itjobswatch.co.uk

Consultant Contracts, Contractor Rates & Skill Set

The median contractor rate for a Consultant is GBP 550 per day. Explore Consultant skill sets and latest job market statistics
www.itjobswatch.co.uk www.itjobswatch.co.uk

Hope this helps,
Firefly.
 
[*UPDATE* This is a long detailed post so apologies in advance]

Bit of a significant update on this one folks, having spent the last year upskilling obtaining CompTIA certifications (Network+, Security+, CySA+) I think I have finally made the decision to pursue a career transition from IT Tech Support Helpdesk into the field of Cybersecurity. I put a considerable amount of thought and research into the career changing process. I completed an online career assessment with ETC Consult (https://careerfit.com) and Cybersecurity was one of the top area's identified as a suitable career choice for me. I was also influenced by a book called '80,000 Hours' which focuses on finding a high-impact fulfilling career. Based on extensive research, they identified Cybersecurity as one of the top career choices (https://80000hours.org/2023/04/why-...ecurity-to-our-list-of-priority-career-paths/) so I am a little bit inspired by the idea of more meaningful work. I would be lying if I didn't admit that Cybersecurity would also be more financially rewarding, and it is very topical of recent years with massive job demand and growth predicted so it seems like a safe bet in terms of being a future-proof career choice that hopefully wouldn't be too badly disrupted in terms of losing one's job to AI. Admittedly the bulk of Cybersecurity jobs are currently in the private sector, but I'm hopeful that the Public sector will invest more in Cybersecurity recruitment in the coming years.

The next problem I had was coming to the realization that Cybersecurity is an extremely broad field, so it would be very difficult to become a jack-of-all-trades type of generalist. I decided that rather than try to cover everything, I felt I would be better served by choosing a Cybersecurity sub-domain to focus on. I decided to apply and interview for a Cybersecurity EO competition with the Civil Service, there was no particular role specified so it could have been in any sub-domain within Cybersecurity. My interview went well and I finished quite high on the order of merit. Upon completion of Garda clearance checks, it is looking like I'm imminently going to be offered a Cybersecurity role with the Civil Service, focusing on Information Security Auditing and Compliance (specifically ISO 27001). Although it would no doubt be a lot less technical than the tech-support helpdesk career that I have built thus far, I am thinking it might be worth considering as I'd prefer to remain in the Public Sector (or at least semi-state) and from what I can see most Cybersecurity roles in Public Service tends to focus more on GRC (Governance, Risk & Compliance) and the more technical aspects (e.g. penetration tests) are typically outsourced to 3rd party private firms. I have also read that GRC tends to have better work-life balance than many of the other area's of Cybersecurity, there is rarely any evening or weekend work required. This is great because I would no longer have to worry about being on-site to cover Helpdesk, and could work remotely when visiting my disabled father in Northern Ireland. I think it would therefore be reasonable logical to try to specialize and focus on GRC as my niche Cybersecurity sub-domain and this job offer would lend itself nicely.

I know it sounds like I have a solid plan figured out, but there are still a couple of potential hurdles that I am seeking advice and opinions on:

1 - SALARY

One of the major benefits of sticking with the Public Sector, is that I can apply for salary matching to the nearest scale so it would be one of the few routes that would allow me to transition to an entry-level role in Cybersecurity without having to take a significant pay reduction. Assuming this salary matching application was successful, this would be approximately how my salary would compare if I took the new role:

YEARAGECurrent Pay - Local Authority (Grade 5)Potential New Pay - Civil Service (EO)
202335€50,285€50,482
202436€51,761€51,659
202537€53,248€51,659
202638€53,248€51,659
202739€53,248€53,336 (LSI1)
202840€54,981 (LSI1)€53,336 (LSI1)
202941€54,981 (LSI1)€53,336 (LSI1)
203042€54,981 (LSI1)€55,026 (LSI2)
203143€56,721 (LSI2)

So on the surface there doesn't appear to be too much in it, I would probably be slightly better off financially in my current role with the Local Authority but I would envisage a lot more potential for promotion within the Civil Service so perhaps I could try for a HEO role before long.

2 - LOCATION

In my current role in the Midlands I drive 20mins each way to/from the office 3 days per week. In the new role I would have to take a 90min bus each way to/from Dublin 3 days per week with the potential option of working 1 of those days from a hot-desk in a secondary office that's a 45min drive away in County Laois. I would envisage that my transport costs would increase significantly, because I'm told that the tax saver commuter tickets are bad value for hybrid workers who don't need to commute 5 days per week. But realistically most of the Cybersecurity roles are going to be based in Dublin, so perhaps I just need to accept that and try to get accustomed to the idea.

3 - HOLIDAY

This one is the most difficult to swallow, in my current role I get 30 days annual leave plus an extra 13 days flexi leave per year. If I take the new role I would drop down to only 23 days annual leave which is a massive reduction, but I believe I would still be entitled to 12 days flexi leave which I'm told has been re-instated in the Civil Service after a freeze during covid. The flexi leave is crucial because I like to visit family in Northern Ireland for one long-weekend each month.

4 - EDUCATION

I am interested in doing a part-time 2-year level 9 MSc in Cybersecurity Management with MTU in Cork next month. The main appeal for me is that it is less technical than a pure Cybersecurity course, and more focused on GRC which is the sub-domain I am thinking to specialize in. I also know that MTU is the home of the 'Cyber Ireland' national Cybersecurity cluster organisation so I think it would be a reputable course. I think the GRC focus of this course would tie in really well with this new job given that I'd be working in Information Security Compliance. But I'm concerned that perhaps it isn't a wise idea to take on a level 9 Masters course at the same time as entering a new career field that requires much longer commuting. A Masters is not essential, and usually only shows up under desirable criteria on job descriptions but at the same time I'd rather do one now when I'm reasonably young and don't have any other commitments in terms of children. I'm also aware I can only afford to do this course whilst there is currently Springboard+ funding, and the funding or the course itself may not always be an option in future.


I would be keen to hear some thoughts and opinions, I think I've got the beginnings of a decent logical career plan but I'm sure there may be some things which I have overlooked or not considered.
 
As a general comment, I would caution against making assumptions as to the precise nature of the work you’ll be assigned. Cybersecurity is a new area in the CS and, I suspect, is being progressed on the hoof. As an EO, you may not necessarily be assigned work of the complexity or level of interest that you anticipate.
PoundMan said:
So on the surface there doesn't appear to be too much in it, I would probably be slightly better off financially in my current role with the Local Authority but I would envisage a lot more potential for promotion within the Civil Service so perhaps I could try for a HEO role before long.
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In the civil service, you no longer have to serve time in a grade before you apply for a position at a higher grade. You could potentially apply for the position of Secretary General if you feel you have a chance.

PoundMan said:
2 - LOCATION

In my current role in the Midlands I drive 20mins each way to/from the office 3 days per week. In the new role I would have to take a 90min bus each way to/from Dublin 3 days per week with the potential option of working 1 of those days from a hot-desk in a secondary office that's a 45min drive away in County Laois. I would envisage that my transport costs would increase significantly, because I'm told that the tax saver commuter tickets are bad value for hybrid workers who don't need to commute 5 days per week. But realistically most of the Cybersecurity roles are going to be based in Dublin, so perhaps I just need to accept that and try to get accustomed to the idea.
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This is a significant extra burden that shouldn’t be underestimated. It depends on how rewarding you find the work and how motivated you are as a consequence. You can’t really decide on this until you get there and have spent some time on the job.
PoundMan said:
3 - HOLIDAY

This one is the most difficult to swallow, in my current role I get 30 days annual leave plus an extra 13 days flexi leave per year. If I take the new role I would drop down to only 23 days annual leave which is a massive reduction, but I believe I would still be entitled to 12 days flexi leave which I'm told has been re-instated in the Civil Service after a freeze during covid. The flexi leave is crucial because I like to visit family in Northern Ireland for one long-weekend each month.
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The CS generally offers flexitime but you should definitely check this before accepting the job. There are 13 flexi periods in the year. It used to be possible to work up a day and a half in each period but I don’t know whether this is still the case.
PoundMan said:
4 - EDUCATION

I am interested in doing a part-time 2-year level 9 MSc in Cybersecurity Management with MTU in Cork next month. The main appeal for me is that it is less technical than a pure Cybersecurity course, and more focused on GRC which is the sub-domain I am thinking to specialize in. I also know that MTU is the home of the 'Cyber Ireland' national Cybersecurity cluster organisation so I think it would be a reputable course. I think the GRC focus of this course would tie in really well with this new job given that I'd be working in Information Security Compliance. But I'm concerned that perhaps it isn't a wise idea to take on a level 9 Masters course at the same time as entering a new career field that requires much longer commuting. A Masters is not essential, and usually only shows up under desirable criteria on job descriptions but at the same time I'd rather do one now when I'm reasonably young and don't have any other commitments in terms of children. I'm also aware I can only afford to do this course whilst there is currently Springboard+ funding, and the funding or the course itself may not always be an option in future.
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Consider the Masters programme on its own merits rather than on the basis of whether it dovetails with a job you haven’t got yet and the specifics of which are a big vague at this point.

The extra commute as you’ve suggested will itself be a significant extra burden so consider whether you have the additional time and energy needed to complete a challenging extra programme. I don’t know whether you’ve ever studied at night but I have and believe me, it’s tough going after a while.

In terms of addressing the skills you actually need for the job, you might be better off looking at shorter, more specific day courses that would be funded by the CS as part of your annual training. These would be paid in full by the CS and you would be paid for the days you spend training.

You could always apply for the Masters in the future and the CS would pick up the tab which would only be payable by you if you don’t pass.
 
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In my opinion there is high value in CS/PS recruitment on academic qualifications, lv7/8/9 etc. Slightly less so in the Private IT sector but still significant, to the point you'll be at disadvantage without it. Also certification is also an increasing requirement. Certification leads unavoidably to some specialisation. Self taught IT generalists will find it hard to progress past a certain point.

I would agree with earlier advice that when looking at skillsets development, don't solely look at CS/PS, but also be aware and consideration what's bankable in the private sector. So if looking at a course, see how it aligns with professional certification. See what jobs are looking for and work towards that.

I think your on a good path, you have some certs, now looking at the academic equivalence.
 
Salvadore said:
You could always apply for the Masters in the future and the CS would pick up the tab which would only be payable by you if you don’t pass.
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Do CS also make employees stay for the equivalent length of time that it takes to do the course as a lot of private companies insist on in their education policies?

It does make sense what you say about giving oneself time to test out the job, along with the travel which sounds heavy, but having to reimburse for an expensive Masters to CS rather just forgoing being able to apply for another Springboard course sounds an easier/cheaper option.

A young relative was worried earlier this year that the funds would not be available for their course as there appeared to be delays on the budgeting with Springboard.
 
Sue Ellen said:
Do CS also make employees stay for the equivalent length of time that it takes to do the course as a lot of private companies insist on in their education policies?

It does make sense what you say about giving oneself time to test out the job, along with the travel which sounds heavy, but having to reimburse for an expensive Masters to CS rather just forgoing being able to apply for another Springboard course sounds an easier/cheaper option.
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There’s nothing to prevent the OP, after he accepts the CS job, from applying for the springboard masters. His employing department can be asked to cover the remaining 10% which reduces his potential liability from thousands to hundreds.

Worst case scenario, he fails year one and has to reimburse his department to the value of the 10% that covered.
 
PoundMan said:
1 - SALARY

One of the major benefits of sticking with the Public Sector, is that I can apply for salary matching to the nearest scale so it would be one of the few routes that would allow me to transition to an entry-level role in Cybersecurity without having to take a significant pay reduction. Assuming this salary matching application was successful, this would be approximately how my salary would compare if I took the new role:

YEARAGECurrent Pay - Local Authority (Grade 5)Potential New Pay - Civil Service (EO)
202335€50,285€50,482
202436€51,761€51,659
202537€53,248€51,659
202638€53,248€51,659
202739€53,248€53,336 (LSI1)
202840€54,981 (LSI1)€53,336 (LSI1)
202941€54,981 (LSI1)€53,336 (LSI1)
203042€54,981 (LSI1)€55,026 (LSI2)
203143€56,721 (LSI2)

So on the surface there doesn't appear to be too much in it, I would probably be slightly better off financially in my current role with the Local Authority but I would envisage a lot more potential for promotion within the Civil Service so perhaps I could try for a HEO role before long.

2 - LOCATION

In my current role in the Midlands I drive 20mins each way to/from the office 3 days per week. In the new role I would have to take a 90min bus each way to/from Dublin 3 days per week with the potential option of working 1 of those days from a hot-desk in a secondary office that's a 45min drive away in County Laois. I would envisage that my transport costs would increase significantly, because I'm told that the tax saver commuter tickets are bad value for hybrid workers who don't need to commute 5 days per week. But realistically most of the Cybersecurity roles are going to be based in Dublin, so perhaps I just need to accept that and try to get accustomed to the idea.

3 - HOLIDAY

This one is the most difficult to swallow, in my current role I get 30 days annual leave plus an extra 13 days flexi leave per year. If I take the new role I would drop down to only 23 days annual leave which is a massive reduction, but I believe I would still be entitled to 12 days flexi leave which I'm told has been re-instated in the Civil Service after a freeze during covid. The flexi leave is crucial because I like to visit family in Northern Ireland for one long-weekend each month.
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Sadly I am disappointed to update that things are now unlikely to materialize as I had hoped. The Civil Service department have offered me the job, but they will not match my current public sector salary so it would mean taking a €6k pay cut. As much as I was really interested in the role, I think I'll have little choice than to reject the offer as I simply cannot afford such a reduction in wages for a role that would already cost me extra time and money in terms of a much longer commute. Obviously I was very naive to assume that salary matching wouldn't have been an issue given that I was remaining within the public sector. Their HR department said that my current role was more analogous to an AO grade rather than the EO post on offer, so I would be effectively downgrading. Looks like I'm going to be stuck on the IT Helpdesk for another while longer unfortunately.
 
I think I would look to boost your academic qualifications and taking advantage of more free time to do it with the current job. Just give it more time.

Public sector and Civil service are struggling to recruit and retain technical staff. They already are heavily dependent on contractors and outsourcing. That's only going to increase.
 
You have the opportunity to take a career break to take up work in the private sector. That would allow you to dip your toe in private sector and see if you like it. It won't have huge impact on your pension if you take a year or so. (I take it you're single pension scheme so can't buy back years?). In my experience, technical expertise isn't particularly valued in public sector. There's far more opportunity (and money!!!) In private sector for it.
Worst case scenario: you don't like it and pop back in in a year!
 
Bolter said:
You have the opportunity to take a career break to take up work in the private sector. That would allow you to dip your toe in private sector and see if you like it. It won't have huge impact on your pension if you take a year or so. (I take it you're single pension scheme so can't buy back years?). In my experience, technical expertise isn't particularly valued in public sector. There's far more opportunity (and money!!!) In private sector for it.
Worst case scenario: you don't like it and pop back in in a year!
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I think this is great advice @PoundMan

And spot on about the value of technical expertise in the public sector.

Let the news you got on salary prompt you to take a bold step.
 
You should really try working in the private sector. You can still get 50k doing Business Intelligence and around 80k if you upskill to a Data Scientist. Many of these roles are hybrid, but I doubt you will get the same level of holidays but the holidays will be dependant on deadlines and not dependant on other people being out.

Also - you could ask your current employer to pay for your education and provide a business case as to why it would be useful to the business. That would stop you from having to pay for it yourself. You could apply Data Science analysis of your current team and broader teams and look to see how you can apply Data Science methodologies to lean your findings.
 
thedaddyman said:
Interestingly I know lots of IT contractors working in the Public Sector as contractors and not staff and raking in the money. Some turned down permanent roles as they'd have lost out financially
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AlbacoreA said:
Same here. They mostly in my experience get the same flexibility regarding remote working as well. All the ones I know are developers which the Poundman isn't, though.
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@thedaddyman and @AlbacoreA I'm just wondering what resources IT contractors would use to find opportunities in the Public Sector? I know of Unijobs (https://unijobs.ie/find-a-job) and PFH (https://www.pfh.ie/careers/) but I'm wondering if there are others that I'm unaware of?
 
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