Are private schools better than public schools?

[mtk]

In south dublin most secondary schools for girls are fee paying .
Hence the peer pressure to go to fee paying schools among the kids.
Fees plus extras 7k approx. for day pupils at more expensive end (mount anville, rathdown, killiney ., alexander), the "cheaper" ones are around 4k ( the rest).In the overall scheme of things not much of a price difference imho .
Both price categories are a real bargain relative to the UK "public" schools by a multiple.

 

[Purple]

In south dublin most secondary schools for girls are fee paying .

I didn't know that. I'm surprised.

 

[DublinHead54]

Whilst the education quality and syllabus may not differ, there is an aspect of 'opportunity network costs'. Assuming that in a fee-paying school the parents are in high earning professions for the most part and those connections the child builds may bear fruition later in life.

That is my view, I don't think whether it is private/public detracts from the need to be hardworking and have a supportive family environment.

I have a bigger gripe with Universities which I think treat our children as cash-cows and do a poor job at educating.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

Have you any interest in posting on the substance of the topic at hand

Of course.

 

[Steven Barrett]

In south dublin most secondary schools for girls are fee paying .
Hence the peer pressure to go to fee paying schools among the kids.
Fees plus extras 7k approx. for day pupils at more expensive end (mount anville, rathdown, killiney ., alexander), the "cheaper" ones are around 4k ( the rest).In the overall scheme of things not much of a price difference imho .
Both price categories are a real bargain relative to the UK "public" schools by a multiple.

There is a massive demand for the free girls schools. Waiting list of over 1,000 for Muckross for my daughters year (she's in 4th class). We didn't put her name down until she was in 2nd class so assume we've missed the boat (although I hear the system has changed), so she is going to a private school. It is a lot smaller which will suit her better. It's relatively new so all the facilities are very modern and the building is very fresh with lots of natural light.

But I find people get very entrenched in their argument over which is better. A child won't automatically become a genius for going to a private school. The facilities and subjects may suit a child, the smaller numbers may work for the child or a child may flourish in a public school. How a child will do is more down to their upbringing and their home environment.

 

[Purple]

Whilst the education quality and syllabus may not differ, there is an aspect of 'opportunity network costs'. Assuming that in a fee-paying school the parents are in high earning professions for the most part and those connections the child builds may bear fruition later in life.

I think the "Old Boys network" may be overstated. That said I didn't go to a private school.

I have a bigger gripe with Universities which I think treat our children as cash-cows and do a poor job at educating.

In my view our education system starts at a very high quality level in Primary school and deteriorates as it progresses. The primary reason for this, again in my opinion, is that totally flawed Leaving Cert model which teaches children to remember, not to think. That absence of the ability to think critically is almost hard wires into the students by the time they get to college. Over the last 20 years I've found no link between educational attainment and the ability to problem solve within an engineering context. I have to presume that holds true in other areas.

 

[NoRegretsCoyote]

I think the "Old Boys network" may be overstated. That said I didn't go to a private school.

Same for me. I went to the local community school. Mrs NRC went fee-paying and still hangs out with her school friends too. But they don't and indeed can't help each other professionally as they all do completely different things.

The most useful contacts I've made professionally are the people I worked with in my 20s. No one knows or cares where I went to school.

 

[Cervelo]

I was sent to a a private college in D4 for all my schooling and though I had a great time and learned lots, I wouldn't consider that I got a good education in fact I'd say if my father had saved his money and sent me to a local public school I probably would have done better
It's not that the education I was given was in any way substandard it's just that I didn't apply myself to it.

I have to agree with you Purple, it was the education my father gave me when I joined his company that has really stood to me
The ability to think and problem solve while on your feet and the realization that those actions can have far reaching consequences
is not thought in books per se but learnt in the real world

 

[dereko1969]

I found it a little surprising that the kid taking the Leaving Cert case lives in Celbridge but goes to Belvedere, how many schools does he pass on his way to and from school - would the additional time spent going to and from Belvedere than local have assisted him with studying more?

 

[fungie20]

It was the education my father gave me when I joined his company that has really stood to me
The ability to think and problem solve while on your feet and the realization that those actions can have far reaching consequences
is not thought in books per se but learnt in the real world

Not everyone has the luxury to be set up in their father's company though!

 

[Purple]

Not everyone has the luxury to be set up in their father's company though!

It can be a mixed blessing I'm sure.

Not everyone has the luxury of being academic or having educated parents who can help them with their homework or having parents who can pay for grinds or having the right accent to help progress in their profession or knowing the right people to open doors for them etc.

All of those things help but for the vast majority of people their own hard work or lack thereof is the greatest determining factor in what their income is.

 

[DublinHead54]

I think the "Old Boys network" may be overstated. That said I didn't go to a private school.

In my view our education system starts at a very high quality level in Primary school and deteriorates as it progresses. The primary reason for this, again in my opinion, is that totally flawed Leaving Cert model which teaches children to remember, not to think. That absence of the ability to think critically is almost hard wires into the students by the time they get to college. Over the last 20 years I've found no link between educational attainment and the ability to problem solve within an engineering context. I have to presume that holds true in other areas.

I have recently been partaking in a part-time masters course at a well known Irish university and I have been appalled at the level of teaching. There have been some throwaway remarks about masters courses not about learning material which I agree with in concept but not at the cost of poor teaching. Whilst there has been some excellent teaching, some appear to believe students are there to keep the university ticking over and teaching is a nonprimary aspect of their employment i.e. they are researchers first. Then comes the money piece.....

I completely agree the education system needing to be overhauled, I'd love to see aspects of critical thinking and reflection taught through philosophy and history topics, and problem-solving taught through coding / mathematics.

 

[Cervelo]

Purple is spot on that it can and was a mixed blessing, yes there was the security of a job for life and all trappings that came with that
But what is not really talked about is all the long days and the hard work that goes into running and maintaining a family business
and the responsibility/burden that is put on your shoulders as you grow the business for the next generation of family members, employees, suppliers and customers.

 

[Leo]

Purple is spot on that it can and was a mixed blessing, yes there was the security of a job for life and all trappings that came with that

I turned down what would have been an easier option at the time of the family company and have no doubt that my life has been a lot easier and more financially rewarding as a result.

 

[Purple]

Purple is spot on that it can and was a mixed blessing, yes there was the security of a job for life and all trappings that came with that
But what is not really talked about is all the long days and the hard work that goes into running and maintaining a family business
and the responsibility/burden that is put on your shoulders as you grow the business for the next generation of family members, employees, suppliers and customers.

There's also the fact that work is the primary place you make friends as an adult and that's much harder to do when you are the boss or a family member is a family business. There's more to life than money.

 

[Purple]

I have recently been partaking in a part-time masters course at a well known Irish university and I have been appalled at the level of teaching. There have been some throwaway remarks about masters courses not about learning material which I agree with in concept but not at the cost of poor teaching. Whilst there has been some excellent teaching, some appear to believe students are there to keep the university ticking over and teaching is a nonprimary aspect of their employment i.e. they are researchers first. Then comes the money piece.....

I recently did a diploma through TU Dublin. It was interesting and somewhat relevant but the whole thing was laughably easy. If that's what's involved in betting a diploma they aren't really worth a damn.

I am contacted by 3rd level institutions at least twice a month, looking for collaboration in research projects or support in our projects. I've yet to find anything that is actually useful.

 

[Firefly]

People send their kids to schools for lots of reasons, because their friends are going there, because they went there, because it's the local school, because it has a better reputation, because they think their child will get a better education or because they are snobs or any mix of the above.

It's deadly for us...we often thought about buying a place in West Cork, but this way we get to be snobs for only 400 quid a month

 

[meepman]

When thy die and their children inherit the proceeds of their house then the children will be wealthy.
If your parents don't own a house and won't leave you money it makes it hard for you to buy a house/pay off a mortgage and leave more cash for your children.
I bought my first home in 1997, three years after qualifying as a Tradesman, because I thought that property prices would go up after 1998 when the ECB was established and exchange rates were frozen and interest rates (which were much lower in Europe) were set by that ECB. It was an apartment in Dublin City Centre. It cost £58,000 which was three times my income. Since then the rate of asset price inflation has far outpaced wage inflation. When the people who bought those assets cheap die their children will get a inheritance significantly bigger than their parents would have got relative to income.

Discussion gone off track a tad.

Agree on people who bought pre 00. But what about people who are buying now who have very little irish inheritance or are from a different country with little savings, What happens to them? They cant afford to buy most likely and even struggle to rent

 

[Purple]

Discussion gone off track a tad.

Agree on people who bought pre 00. But what about people who are buying now who have very little irish inheritance or are from a different country with little savings, What happens to them? They cant afford to buy most likely and even struggle to rent

They are screwed, just like the Irish born in the same position.

 

[gianni]

I don't think most private schools cost €7000 a year, more like 4 or 5k. People send their kids to schools for lots of reasons, because their friends are going there, because they went there, because it's the local school, because it has a better reputation, because they think their child will get a better education or because they are snobs or any mix of the above. There is no evidence that private schools provide better educational outcomes than public schools in the same demographic catchment area.

I think you might want to take that chip off your shoulder.

https://www.marketplace.org/2021/01/19/why-rich-people-tend-think-they-deserve-their-money/amp