Who is suggesting that people should be working harder?Yes, damn those junior doctors, only working up 90 or 100 hours per week including >24 hour shifts. If only they'd work a bit harder, we could clear all those waiting lists so easily.
Irrelevant as well as facetious. If the unionised staff stopped inhibiting service delivery we'd have a much better functioning servicesYes, damn those junior doctors, only working up 90 or 100 hours per week including >24 hour shifts. If only they'd work a bit harder, we could clear all those waiting lists so easily.
Facetious? Moi?Irrelevant as well as facetious. If the unionised staff stopped inhibiting service delivery we'd have a much better functioning services
Do you like repeating the same question despite it being answered numerous times?I don't suppose you've come up with any examples of how unionised staff are inhibiting service delivery since the last time I asked you?
Was just hoping that maybe you had some examples by now, but apparently notDo you like repeating the same question despite it being answered numerous times?
Do you expect other posters to conduct research in order to support their posts on what is a discussion forum?Was just hoping that maybe you had some examples by now, but apparently not
The specific claim here is about "unionised staff are inhibiting service delivery". I don't expect anyone to do research. I'd expect that before anyone would make a claim like this, they would have information or knowledge on which to base the claim. If this is some kind of gut feeling or act of faith, it really doesn't add much to policy discussions like this.Do you expect other posters to conduct research in order to support their posts on what is a discussion forum?
What posters see is one of the best funded health services in the world with some of the longest waiting list in the developed world.
This is a good overview of the Irish Healthcare system, though it ignored our very young population as a control factor for spending and outcomes and it should be noted that the main sources of information are from within the Irish Healthcare system and State sector.
Overall we are not doing to badly but averages are not such a good indicator as our private system makes them look better than they would if we just measured the public system. It's also worth noting that we are spending over 11% of our GNI on health, way above the EU average.
It is fair to say that our Civil Service is too small. It's about the same size as it was 10 years ago and our population and economy are considerably bigger now than they were then.
There is certainly an overhang from the 80's in the perception of Unions but at the same time it's very hard to prove a negative and the people who would be doing the examinations would be either in the Unions or gathering data from people who are in the unions.The specific claim here is about "unionised staff are inhibiting service delivery". I don't expect anyone to do research. I'd expect that before anyone would make a claim like this, they would have information or knowledge on which to base the claim. If this is some kind of gut feeling or act of faith, it really doesn't add much to policy discussions like this.
If union intransigence had one-tenth of the impact that some posters here would suggest, we'd be tripping over ourselves with press reports and PQs and government statements in relation to such issues. I've seen no actual evidence to suggest that this is the case. To me, it seems to be posters relying on 1980s tired old tropes.
If this stuff is happening, let's get the evidence out on the table. If there's no evidence, it's not happening.
Do we consider PRSI and USC as a tax
Facetious? Moi?
I don't suppose you've come up with any examples of how unionised staff are inhibiting service delivery since the last time I asked you?
That's a bit tenuous though, isn't it?To be fair that incident could be explained by paranoia on account of people suing them because the spillage wasn't dealt with "professionally".
No, she was studying for exams.P.S. you didn't get that nurse's number by any chance?
There is certainly an overhang from the 80's in the perception of Unions but at the same time it's very hard to prove a negative and the people who would be doing the examinations would be either in the Unions or gathering data from people who are in the unions.
It hardly needs to be states that there is less labour flexibility in unionised workplaces and that lack of flexibility has a significant impact on productivity.
Here's an example, and I appreciate it's only one example.
When my eldest son was two and a half he was very sick in Tallaght hospital for a few weeks. I stayed there every night, going directly to and from work each day. One evening he spilled a drink on the floor and when I went to wipe it up a nurse said "You can't do that". I went to hand her the blue paper so she could do it and she recoiled (no exaggeration), saying that wasn't her job. She went to the Nurses Station and called a cleaner, staying there for about 10-15 minutes until the cleaner arrived. When she got back to the room with the cleaner I'd already cleaned it up. She gave out to me. So, something that should have taken 20 seconds took up 15 minutes of her time and 15 minutes of the cleaners time. Does anyone seriously think that would happen in a non-unionised environment?
As an aside, a few nights later I heard, from my sons room 20 feet away, a Nurse recalling in graphic detail the oral sex she's given to someone outside a pub/nightclub the previous weekend.
Some quick examples from the west of Ireland.
Doctor followed by RTE (Primetime?) doing very little public work.
Doctor in hospital "screaming" at the bed manager/waiting list official, that they won't take any more patients.
Two porters watching Steptoe and Son videos after their boss leaves.
That's really my point - what's all this got to do with union intransigence?Poor experiences that have been repeatedly related to me were mainly:
For instance:
- Information not passed on
- Lack of vigilance
- Lack of supervision
I have usually had good experiences, and I hope these events are not typical, though I have had similar recounted to me often enough.
- A heart patient who could not have aspirin. Information given to A & E clinicians. Not passed on to various ward clinicians. Relatives, frustrated at having to constantly repeat the same information and afraid of what might happen in their absence had to put a sign over the patient’s bed themselves.
- Patient in her 70s with osteo and rheumatoid arthritis and a leg ulcer, ambulanced to hospital after a fall. Placed in a geriatric ward with minimal medical treatment and no subsequent x-rays after the 1st in A & E. The relatives witnessed a carer drop a sterile dressing on the floor and was about to apply it to the patient’s ulcerated leg. She later contracted MRSA and was moved to an isolation room. The room had a musty smell and was never cleaned. She died shortly afterwards.
- Relatives visited their father in the evening. There for circa an hour and half. Before leaving one relative went to straighten the bedclothes and discovered a urine bottle. The father was embarrassed to mentioned it. It had been there for an hour before they arrived. He had pressed the bell over his bed several times but said it was very seldom answered. Relatives went to the nursing station to discover the staff nurse and 5 or six other nurses. When they asked why they were in the nurse’s station and not on the wards, they were told they were studying for exams.
- Son received a telephone from the hospital to inform him that unless he took time off work to feed his mother, who suffered from dementia, during every mealtime, it could not guarantee that she would be fed.
I’m not sure that these failures have to do with union membership but rather with a combination of inadequate resourcing and poor individual management.
Yes, I agree that these are individual failures caused by managerial shortcomings and/or a lack of adequate or appropriate resources and personnel.That's really my point - what's all this got to do with union intransigence?
It's not just individual failures, it's a pattern and why do they occur more often there. It's because of a lack of accountability.Yes, I agree that these are individual failures caused by managerial shortcomings and/or a lack of adequate or appropriate resources and personnel.
Blaming unions is often a bum steer to mask a multitude of sins, such as the hospital plan from hell.
I don’t think that comparing public and private hospitals is particularly relevant as they don’t act in the same framework.
The fact that Ireland is a high-cost economy probably has the greatest material bearing on healthcare costs.
Figures on spending are adjusted for purchasing power parity. What people get paid isn't the issue. We should be asking the question "In a optimally structured healthcare system would the task the individual is doing be necessary?".The fact that Ireland is a high-cost economy probably has the greatest material bearing on healthcare costs.
Yes, an ophthalmologist averaging of 13 out of 39 contracted HSE hours per week over a three month period.Doctor followed by RTE (Primetime?) doing very little public work.
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