Architect plans way over budget

Just to add, that after our first plan was found to be over-budget, we did strongly think of getting a new architect but after a frank discussion with him, we decided to continue as we were reluctant to start from scratch all over agin. It worked out well at the second serve, sorry, attempt
 
I would be concerned that you set a budget of 275k and the architect has been engaged to design, tender and PM has designed something that is now 500k (presuming excluding a kitchen).

I am not an expert, but I don't see how the variation can all be put down to material and wage increases.

On the flip side, I have engaged with Architects recently who have not given cost estimates and ask I employ a QS and that they essentially just do the drawings.
 
Thanks all for the comments. I'm going to go back to the architect and politely tell them the plans are too far over budget for us to proceed without a redesign.

Leo said:
We really don't have enough information here to make that judgement.
Click to expand...

The estimate is based on a price of 2.5k per square meter in the new parts of the building and 1.5k per square meter for the existing house. That's ex. VAT and fees. Are those prices what you would expect these days? I have seen everything from 1.6k including VAT to 3k without so I just have no idea what's a reasonable price. We're in Galway city if that makes a difference.


That is our concern exactly. It is just so far over budget and they've tried to say it's increasing prices etc. but 50% in 3 months is not just inflation. I do accept that the plan ended up more complicated structurally than they had anticipated but I would have expected them to discuss this with us rather than just ploughing ahead with a design that we can't afford. I've read back over my emails and I really made it clear that 375k was a stretch for us so how they thought 500k+ would work I just don't know.

The figures they estimated did include sanitary ware, kitchen etc,. but the amount assigned was not large (12k for kitchen and utility). I don't think this would cover a whole kitchen once appliances are included.
 
Aliwag said:
I have seen everything from 1.6k including VAT to 3k without so I just have no idea what's a reasonable price. We're in Galway city if that makes a difference.
Click to expand...
A lot will come down to the specifications and materials. Access challenges will add to the cost. With that budget, appointing a good QS will ensure you are getting good value for money. An architects budget estimate will be just that, have you spoken to contractors about getting a price for the job or does the architect contract include full management?
 
Aliwag said:
The figures they estimated did include sanitary ware, kitchen etc,. but the amount assigned was not large (12k for kitchen and utility). I don't think this would cover a whole kitchen once appliances are included.
Click to expand...

12k for a kitchen and utility seems too little to budget for especially on a project costing 500k.

You could build a brand new house for 500k.
 
@Aliwag thanks for sharing the details it's interesting/scary to see these costs, we are considering doing a job also.
Could you share the sqm of new build and refurbishment.

I assume with that level of budget you have specified to bugest for higher end finishes and A rating the existing house?

Also does his budget allow for flooring/painting/landscaping etc or just construction?
 

The existing house is 100sqm including a falling-down conservatory of 10sqm, which will be demolished. Extension is 90ishsqm. So total at the end is around 180sqm. The proposed layout does require removing the back wall at ground floor level and putting several holes in the side wall too and the structural requirements (steel, propping walls etc) do contribute to the high cost.

This quote does not include particularly high end finishes - it’s for pvc windows, red deal stairs, standard kitchen, etc. It does include flooring (pc sum cost of €80/sqm) and painting but not landscaping. Re, energy efficiency, this is the cost of building the extension and upgrading the existing house in line with building regs only but does include digging up the screed and insulating above the existing slab. It would be a B2 at best I think.
 
Last edited:
AlbacoreA said:
In fairness, we have enough information to make all sorts of judgements.
Click to expand...
So what do you think would be a fair price for the design and specification requested?

AlbacoreA said:
For me its the utter disregard of the clients instruction would be a red flag for me.
Click to expand...
It sounds like there were conflicting requirements here, perhaps the architect was given the impression that requirements and specification were more important than budget.
 

The plans should be within budget. What's the point of setting a budget if its ignored.

Architect exceeded his brief. Simple as that. Most people don't pay Architects to do impressions. (double pun intended).

So your paying for the Architects solution (vision) of the brief. Fair enough. But when his solution is vastly more expensive than the brief without satisfying it, they are on a ego trip.
 
Thanks for the details. I'm not an expert by any means, but it's quite a lot of money to spend to remodel a house for the size & spec. If it was me personally I would be waiting for a while unless I really needed the extra space now, a gamble I know. I would also want to be sure I could sell it for the same/more than I am spending, taking into account overruns/rent/finishes etc.

It does seem the architect has gone outside his brief and I would have expected them to be very clear about such a huge overrun, as that would be a deal breaker for most people. They may have anticipated that the budget was more flexible than you said, I guess it's down to how much you trust them and if you don't I would cut my losses now.
 
You haven't clarified what information you saw here that confirmed that the price was extortionate?

I haven't seen the brief, perhaps you might share it with us?
 
Leo said:
You haven't clarified what information you saw here that confirmed that the price was extortionate?

I haven't seen the brief, perhaps you might share it with us?
Click to expand...

The OP comments both describe enough of the budget and brief to make that assessment. In my opinion.

I don't think you need to count every rivet to see a iceberg ahead. In my opinion.
 
Dublinbay12 said:
You could build a brand new house for 500k.
Click to expand...
To be fair, the proposed extension is bigger than the average Irish house! And the job also involves the renovation of the existing property.

I have no expertise in this area but I do know of a number of jobs of this sort of scale in the leafier suburbs of Dublin that were carried out in recent times that cost well in excess of €500k.
 
Price is not a good metric on its own. There's location and quality and materials to consider. It's also a period of peak prices for labour and materials. Then there's the complexity. Start getting into weird geometry and non standard stuff.

You don't want to have a bathroom fit for trump and be a bedroom short.

In the current market you have to looking at the best bang for buck. Nothing is good value at the moment.
 
AlbacoreA said:
The OP comments both describe enough of the budget and brief to make that assessment. In my opinion.

I don't think you need to count every rivet to see a iceberg ahead. In my opinion.
Click to expand...
No, but without even a hint of the area of the proposed development, an opinion that a price is extortionate is clearly based on assumptions, and assumptions that are very much false in this instance.
 
Leo said:
No, but without even a hint of the area of the proposed development, an opinion that a price is extortionate is clearly based on assumptions, and assumptions that are very much false in this instance.
Click to expand...

The datum is not the area. But the initial quote and subsequent creep. Unless someone they managed to significantly upgrade the area from the first quotation to the last one.


275k Budget
300k + fees (architect estimate) - (max budget was 375 incl VAT and fees)
375k budget increased
390k 15k (extra spend approved) - more changes (made much nicer) (but does not include particularly high end finishes)
400k + fees
450k + fees (not including outside room possibly and inside room unclear)

Extras not asked for.
single bedrooms changed to double bedrooms
Cloak room changed to a a full bath downstairs

New estimate lose a room to get back under budget (which budget?, which room?)
So we've gone from a 275k to 500k and probably no longer meet the brief in terms of rooms. Which is critical.

Creeping the costs to fill the budget and beyond is like a result of the fee structure. (calculated as a percentage of the build cost).


At the end of the day its 300k stretched to 500k. That's before it even starts. We know from experience unforeseen things will crop during the build. 500k will not be the end of it. Its not viable unless cost isn't an issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register