Appropriate approach to someone driving at 90kph in the middle lane of the Naas Rd?

[Purple]

LOL Purple - what is the first line in your quote from the RSA website! It isn't "Definition of overtaking" is it! Thanks for proving my point!

Eh?
I'm not sure what you are saying/asking.
The section is called "Overtaking"
The first line on that page is "Only overtake if it is safe for you and other traffic"

 

[Purple]

Finally understanding this thread, I think, it was much easier with the kids and certainly far better than the effort I made on paper. I can categorically state that a) is the safest and legalist option and my kids agree.

Yes, it really is that simple.

 

[Ceist Beag]

Eh?
I'm not sure what you are saying/asking.

I'm simply saying you have not provided a definition of overtaking yet which proves that changing lanes is required.

I found a really good post over on Boards.ie on this very subject, it is very informative and I think comes to the same conclusion that you and I agree on Purple (that it is safer to remain in the driving lane in this scenario) but it also agrees that overtaking can mean passing whilst remaining in the same lane.

Problems caused by Slow drivers & Drivers overtaking nobody in multilane roads
Quote:
Originally Posted by shedweller
I may be mistaken but don't the rules of the road state that you can overtake on the left if the traffic in the right hand lane is moving slowly (or words to that effect)
On Multi-lane roads, There is the Driving lane, which is always on the Left and overtaking lanes on the Right. Vehicles in the overtaking lanes are overtaking.

The First rule of the Road I learn which is Law, That "you drive on the Left" and it is Law. Second as part of the same paragraph is causing inconvenience to others, such as eradicate driving and failing to progress (inconvenience to traffic). That is covered in Section 17 (1) in the 1964 Road Traffic General By Laws. That bit is covered both ways such as tailgating, persistence flashing lights, etc.

Quote:
[broken link removed]
S.I. No. 294/1964 — Road Traffic General Bye-Laws, 1964.

Obligation to drive on the left and to use traffic lanes
17.—(1) A driver shall drive as near to the left hand side of the roadway as is necessary in order to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or a pedestrian, approaching traffic to pass him on his right and overtaking traffic to overtake him on his right.
Slow Drivers overtaking nobody while driving on the overtaking lanes are breaking the Law for failing to drive on the left and for inconvenience to traffic behind them.

Quote:
[broken link removed]
Overtaking

19.—(1) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.


(2) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) unless he can clearly see a portion of the roadway which—


(a) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and


(b) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.


(3) A driver shall overtake on the right and shall not move in towards the left until it is safe to do so.


(4) Notwithstanding paragraph (3) of this bye-law, a driver may overtake on the left—


(a) where the driver of the vehicle about to be overtaken has signalled his intention to turn to the right and the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to go straight ahead or to turn to the left,


(b) where the driver of the overtaking vehicle intends, after having overtaken, to turn left at a road junction and has signalled this intention,


(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.
Section 19 (1) covers both the overtaking vehicle coming from behind on the driving lane, as well as the driver of the vehicle in the overtaking lane overtaking nobody.

The last bit 19 (4)(c) is vague and is widely open to interpretation by the Gardai, DPP & Judiciary. It does favour the driver in the driving lane (as by Law) overtaking the improper driver of the vehicle driving in the overtaking lane breaking Irish Road Traffic general bye law 1964 for failing to drive on the left if the Judge is aware of 19 (1) and the is also aware that the driver accused of overtaking on the left did not adjust his/her speed or changed lanes or did anything different when approaching the large slow moving traffic who where in the overtaking lane overtaking no vehicles in the driving lane therefore did not perform any manoeuvre, just drive as he did before he pass out slow drivers who where breaking law in the first place in three different offences.

This part of the law 19 (4) was meant to mean multi-lane urban traffic as there were far too little multi-lane roads in the Rural areas when this law was put into effect in 1964. On Motorway or 100kph multi-lane road a driver can legal driving slowly @60kph in compare to traffic approaching him from behind who are travelling at 120kph or 100kph. @60Khp may hold up traffic behind him therefore creating Slow-moving Traffic. Slow-moving Traffic is open to interpretation by Gardai, DPP & the Judiciary.

I have no problem with slow moving traffic on normal roads, but driving at speed much less for Motorways is dangerous especially when that driver is driving on the overtaking lane overtaking nobody and the driving lane is free to drive on. 60kph is fast and dangerous in urban speed limits but slow in Motorway/rural 100kph roads.
This is depended on the view or mood of the judge on the Day in Court. A person mood or view varies interpretation of events or vague written word.

Third offence for slow drivers on overtaking lanes is Failing to pull over to let go traffic they they accrued behind them for driving without due care and attention.
This have been sited many times by Gardai on drivers of Farm Vehicles and other vehicles when they build up traffic behind them on single lane roads. There is no reason why gardai cannot use this on Motorways and Multi-lane roads where there is no obvious right hand turn ahead.

So that three offences that Slow drivers on Overtaking lanes are breaking compare to possible just 1 of the Vehicle overtaking on the driving lane overtaking vehicle/s who are driving on the overtaking lane.


A Statement by the Road Safely authority about slow driving.
Quote:
Noel Gibbons Road Safely Authority

“The Rules of the Road states that you must keep up with the pace of traffic flow, while obeying the speed limit. It also says that while you must keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front, you should not drive so slowly that your vehicle unnecessarily blocks other road users. If you drive too slowly, you risk frustrating other drivers, which could lead to dangerous overtaking,” a spokesperson said.
I have no problem drivers driving slow on problematic roads, but driving slow or varying their speed for no good reason on main good wide main road and holding up traffic is a Major problem and will cause crashes, as proven by David Solomon in the US in research in the 1950 and 60's that most accident happen when drivers of vehicle do not travel at median speeds to others traffic will have a high chance of involvement of an accident.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

Slow drivers of Vehicles who caused huge tails back not only cause problems for other normal motorist, they cause major problems for City/Town tailback and traffic congestion to the urban areas they enter and cause major problems for emergency vehicles by having huge tail backs and creating a dangerous environment and driving conditions for drivers of emergency vehicles causing unnecessary delays in reaching a crash site, house or building fire, or hinder life saving personnel from reaching their patience who need emergency help to reach a hospital.

I do not normally agree with Judge Mary Devin interpretation, but I do agree with her view with slow drivers who never check their rear view mirror and who never let traffic they built up pass by pulling over.

[broken link removed]
There is no question about her, She has humour. Reminds me of my late elderly neighbour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Times
November 2011
A motorist caught using a mobile phone for a fourth time while driving was fined €500 and banned from driving for two years at Castlebar District Court. When told it was the accused’s fourth offence, Judge Devins said “The phone must be glued to his ear.”
Last edited by limklad; 18-09-2012 at 18:51.

 

[Purple]

I'm simply saying you have not provided a definition of overtaking yet which proves that changing lanes is required.

I found a really good post over on Boards.ie on this very subject, it is very informative and I think comes to the same conclusion that you and I agree on Purple (that it is safer to remain in the driving lane in this scenario) but it also agrees that overtaking can mean passing whilst remaining in the same lane.

Finally it's cleared up;

It does favour the driver in the driving lane (as by Law) overtaking the improper driver of the vehicle driving in the overtaking lane breaking Irish Road Traffic general bye law 1964 for failing to drive on the left if the Judge is aware of 19 (1) and the is also aware that the driver accused of overtaking on the left did not adjust his/her speed or changed lanes or did anything different when approaching the large slow moving traffic who where in the overtaking lane overtaking no vehicles in the driving lane therefore did not perform any manoeuvre, just drive as he did before he pass out slow drivers who where breaking law in the first place in three different offences.

Accused of overtaking is not the same as overtaking.
... and while I'm being pedantic it's Umble Pie, not Humble Pie

 

[Ceist Beag]

I'll have Steak and Kidney pie as a compromise to close this one out!

 

[Purple]

I'll have Steak and Kidney pie as a compromise to close this one out!

It was great fun though.

 

[Silvera]

Maybe the Gardai should start pulling in people who are driving in the outside lanes when not overtaking.

Just a quiet word with them about the rules of the road might solve a lot of problems.

Brendan

While that approach is needed, the gardai would be kept going 24/7 pulling over 'middle and outside lane hoggers'.

What is needed is driver education.
Clear consise advertisments showing drivers what is required on motorways and dual-carraigeways. The latest RSA tv about motorway driving doesnt spell things out clearly enough imho. For example, the advert says "never use the hard shoulder, except in an emergency". Now while that is correct advice, I believe the advert should state (also state?) - "it is an offence to stop on the hard shoulder, except in an emergency".

Also, I believe that Sunday newspaper adverts/diagrams could be more effective imho, because

a - more older drivers read Sunday papers (and many older drivers have sparse knowledge of motorway driving and/or never sat a driving test)

b - newspaper adverts allow people more time to study same and 'figure it all out' / 'let it sink in'.

My 2 cents.

 

[Bronte]

Since this thread started I've been on the main road into Dublin from the south (N7/N9 I think). So I did an experiment because this thread came to mind as I wondered once again why everybody was driving in the middle etc.

I managed to pass out 9 cars in one go in the middle lane while being in the slow lane. That's my record for now.

 

[delgirl]

Maybe the Gardai should start pulling in people who are driving in the outside lanes when not overtaking.

Just a quiet word with them about the rules of the road might solve a lot of problems.

They do actually do this - my OH was pulled over for driving at the speed limit in the overtaking lane of a dual carriageway, while the left lane was empty.

He was told that he could cause an obstruction to emergency vehicles and was to drive in the left lane unless overtaking.

Have to say I was delighted he was told off!

 

[johnwilliams]

any chance the rsa do a video on the correct way to do this and post it on rte etc like they did for the roundabouts

 

[delgirl]

From July UK drivers who hog the middle lane will receive on the spot fines of £100 and penalty points!

 

[Smoneen]

And this is exactly what the RSA should be considering for the M50 instead of floating the idea of more tolls to reduce congestion. Lane hogging on the m50 is horrendous. If they are so concerned about the peak time congestion on the on & off ramps they should also be installing traffic lights on all exits. Sandyford is fantastic since the lights were introduced. I know the thoughts of 3 more charges of €1.50 each way will definitely be a deal breaker for me. An extra €9 per day for the pleasure of getting to work would be a killer for someone who has a daily 170km round trip.

 

[W200]

One piece of driving advice from the distant past seemed to have stuck in the minds of a lot of drivers . Remember that old radio and TV add about " getting into the correct lane in time if making a right or left turn " This manifests itself regularly on my daily commute where drivers enter the M4 at Leixlip and immediately enter the right hand (overtaking) lane because they are planning to turn right at Kilmainham. Hellor high water will not budge them from this lane . There are probably many examples of this behaviour every day which in my opinion is simply down to lack of driver knowledge as motorway driving is relatively new to Ireland.

 

[Purple]

One piece of driving advice from the distant past seemed to have stuck in the minds of a lot of drivers . Remember that old radio and TV add about " getting into the correct lane in time if making a right or left turn " This manifests itself regularly on my daily commute where drivers enter the M4 at Leixlip and immediately enter the right hand (overtaking) lane because they are planning to turn right at Kilmainham. Hellor high water will not budge them from this lane . There are probably many examples of this behaviour every day which in my opinion is simply down to lack of driver knowledge as motorway driving is relatively new to Ireland.

Yep, I saw a woman in a mini (the big one that looks like a van) this morning on the M50 accelerated as she changed lanes right to left the whole width of the motorway at Tallaght this morning. She was heading North and exited at the Tallaght off-ramp. She would have ended up behind the same car if she had waited 'till the lane was clear and changed lanes one at a time.
Unnecessary and dangerously aggressive driving for absolutely no gain.