Key Post Anyone who buys a home in 2013 is exempt from LPT until 2017, not just First Time Bs

[Bronte]

+1
And to be fair to the Revenue, I don't think its their job to publicise loopholes ...

This is a 'loophole' because someone in the drafting process messed up. And I believe revenue had a hand in the drafting?

Do you not think they could have publicised this so that people who bought in the last while aren't in a mess? Do they have no duty of care to them? Particulary since they were the only ones who were aware of it, and now thanks to AAM and then the Indo picking it up more of us are aware of it.

I'm not sure how LPT worked in practice for sales. But I would imagine the tax would be apportioned, like they used to do for rates. I imagine nowadays things like rates, management fees and LPT are apportioned. This would mean that buyers, who were exempt may have inadvertantly paid a portion of LPT to a seller. If this is the case how are they going to get the money back. Impossible I'd say. And revenue knew this could happen.

If I were a buyer who was exempt and had paid part of it this year I would be hopping mad.

Does anyone know what the Law Society advised solicitors to do in relation to LPT and apportionment or not?

 

[Mrs Vimes]

If I were a buyer who was exempt and had paid part of it this year I would be hopping mad.

Does anyone know what the Law Society advised solicitors to do in relation to LPT and apportionment or not?

As I said on page one of this thread, the Law Society advised that all buyers would have to pay a proportion, even FTBs who were known to be exempt.

 

[Mrs Vimes]

An admission? sarcasm is obviously lost on ye lot...

(But I'll try again anyway...) Maybe, just to be sure, someone should fire in an FOI request...

That was a joke, also kinda slagging off Bronte's occasional paranoia.

Obviously should have stuck in a few of these

These accountant types tend to need it spelled out to them this time of year

 

[mf1]

As I said on page one of this thread, the Law Society advised that all buyers would have to pay a proportion, even FTBs who were known to be exempt.

Actually, on that one, FTB's pretty much said "no way!". And since it all came down to what could be agreed between the parties, most Vendors with a FTB purchaser just paid the 2013 LPT.

The 2014 situation is a much bigger problem now. I only have one current transaction where it is an issue. Clearly, it is in the interests of current prospective purchasers to close before end December. They don't want to contribute towards the 2014 LPT and Vendors are quite sore because they'll be discharging 2014 LPT even though they will have sold before 1.1.2014.

mf

 

[Mrs Vimes]

Have you seen BB's other "loophole" thread here?

Sounds ridiculous really, but this law appears to have been drafted by students or something.

Does anyone know whether it's true that it was drafted at huge expense by one of the very large Dublin firms, at great expense?

 

[Setanta12]

This is a 'loophole' because someone in the drafting process messed up. And I believe revenue had a hand in the drafting?

That I don't know but would be surprised to hear. I thought Revenue had to basically interpret, assess and collect, rather than present Bills to the Oireachtas via Government and opposition TDs. After all,its not unknown but admittedy unlikely for Bills to be presented and passed by other-than-Government TDs.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Revenue has updated their website to cover this issue

What exemptions from Local Property Tax (LPT) are available for residential properties purchased between 1 January and 31 December 2013?

Revenue has attempted to identify the individuals who may be impacted by this:

• Those who bought before 1 May 2013 and paid the 2013 LPT and who will not have a liability for 2014 to 2016, and
• Those who bought after 1 May and who will not have a liability for 2014 to 2016. The vendor in these cases would have been liable to the 2013 charge.

Important: If you fall into either of these groups you do not need to do anything at this point:

• Revenue will write to you shortly and advise you on what action you should take if you qualify for the exemption.
• You should not pay LPT for 2014 on your property if you think you qualify for this exemption.

I would have thought that someone who has purchased a property this year who has not yet paid their LPT should make a return before the 27th and claim the exemption.

 

[Bronte]

That was a joke, also kinda slagging off Bronte's occasional paranoia.

Obviously should have stuck in a few of these

These accountant types tend to need it spelled out to them this time of year

Only spotted this now, me paranoia, about what pray tell. But do agree I'm slow on jokes. But nobody gets my sense of humour.

If you think I'm an accountant type stressed about tax returns, mine is all done and dusted weeks ago, even have letter back from revenue and paid my accountant online the day he emailed me his bill. Also have LPT done so couldn't be in a better mood. I just want revenue to audit me so that I will feel that I can fully sleep at night. It would greatly relieve me to be able to go into the garage and do a bonfire off all my documentation from year dot.

 

[Mrs Vimes]

The paranoia line was about you thinking Revenue monitor AAM - unless things have changed their computers generally only have access to a small number of white-listed sites, mainly govt sites (eg welfare.ie). I don't doubt that there are plenty of Revenuers on here, or even that some of them may attempt to do something about some of the issues raised here, but I really don't think there is any formal monitoring going on.

The other lines were aimed at Mandlebrot

I'm making loads of friends today

 

[Bronte]

The paranoia line was about you thinking Revenue monitor AAM

Oh but they do Mrs Vimes, I''m not paranoid. I'd say they're all over the LPT threads now that the Irish Independant, via AAM notified everybody about the legislative debacle.

 

[jod]

LPT 2014 payment

It appears some vendors are signing up to the single debit authority before they are selling their house and then presuming that this debit (does not come out of your account till Mar 14) is ok for the closure of the sale. Then presumably after the sale has completed one could cancel their single debit and then the purchaser could claim for their entitled exemption in the Change of Ownership form.

However the Revenue website states categorically that the vendor has to discharge the 2014 liability upfront before closing the sale, a single debit authority does not look like obliging that.

The purchaser could end up with a charge on the title and lead to problems down the road.

What does anyone else think?

 

[Dermot]

However the Revenue website states categorically that the vendor has to discharge the 2014 liability upfront before closing the sale, a single debit authority does not look like obliging that.

The purchaser could end up with a charge on the title and lead to problems down the road.

What does anyone else think?

My view as a purchaser would be that my solicitor would be getting proof of payment of the LPT prior to completing the sale

 

[Aineb]

We are buying a house.(ppr). I'm a first time buyer, my husband isn't. I was going to pay the lpt in my name. We don't think that the sale will close until January 2014 now. Does anyone know if I will still get the exemption or do I have to close by 31/12/2013. Thanks.

 

[Setanta12]

Oh but they do Mrs Vimes, I''m not paranoid. I'd say they're all over the LPT threads now that the Irish Independant, via AAM notified everybody about the legislative debacle.

Yawn. Very very very much doubt it. Why would they?

 

[jod]

AineB

You have to close the sale (not just sign the contract) by 31/12/13 to avail of the exemptions, see the first contribution by Brendan on this thread.

The LPT part of the Revenue website is very clear on the obligations for purchasers and vendors, the only bit that is hazy is the justification for the valuation made in May 13 if as in most cases the value has gone up.

The purchaser or your solicitor needs to get the vendor's login details for the LPT website to check has the vendor paid the 2013 and 2014 LPT before closing the sale.


Hope this helps

 

[fobe75]

I'm totally confused. i bought a property in April this year and paid the tax. We are first time buyers in Ireland but previously owned property in the UK.

I just rang the helpline and was told the mistake was only for people who own a house as of 2nd November and the exemption til 2016 is for first time buyers only. I thought the whole hoo haa in the media was that the exemption isnt just for first time buyers but anyone who purchased in 2013?

Also in terms of a mortgage we were not considered first time buyers but the adviser seemed to think we would be for tax purposes?

Would appreciate some advice.

thanks

 

[mercman]

If you bought the house in April 2013 and it is your main residence - you are exempt until 2017.
The person on the "help" line was wrong.

This entire thing is a Fiasco. We purchased another house, not our PPR, and completed last week and the implication from the Revenue site was that as we completed in November this year, the property was subject to no LPT until 2017.

But the Revenue now seem to think differently

 

[Brendan Burgess]

We purchased another house, not our PPR, and completed last week and the implication from the Revenue site was that as we completed in November this year, the property was subject to no LPT until 2017.

Where is this implied on the Revenue site?

Can you provide a link to the site and maybe quote the exact words?

I have never seen this implied. It has always been clear that it is people who are buying a house as their sole or main residence.

Brendan

 

[mercman]

I will request full details from the solicitor who completed the conveyance and will revert to you.

 

[Brendan Burgess]

I will request full details from the solicitor who completed the conveyance and will revert to you.

With respect. This whole issue is very complicated already without needing further complication. You have stated that the Revenue website is misleading. Did you see this yourself, or are you quoting your solicitor?