I think you're focusing too much on a relatively small issue. The French and German governments were not too happy with the way they weren't informed about the guarantee but it was a pretty minor spat. I don't think anyone was expecting the EU to guarantee Irish banks. Why would they?Fair enough, but didnt the EU already show us that they wouldnt be providing any safety blanket as regards banking crises.
Well their currency wouldn't have collapsed and they'd still be able to afford imported goods. Seems they are pretty keen to get in.If Iceland was in the EU are you certain things would be much better?
the point remains that the French and Dutch are not out marching for the Lisbon process to be scrapped. They have not voted for parties in elections that would seek to stop its ratification.
II don't think anyone was expecting the EU to guarantee Irish banks. Why would they?
Well their currency wouldn't have collapsed and they'd still be able to afford imported goods. Seems they are pretty keen to get in.
Neither have the Irish. On either count.
Would you be happy with a third vote or a fourth? At what point would you call a No a No? Yes, we were asked to vote on other things more than once but after a considerable period of time or after a general election (Nice II). The No result was barely in when the Government were scheming on how to get around it. For the same matter to be put to the people 'for final decision' twice in the same parliamentary period is unprecedented and unacceptable.I voted No based on the treaty, not to give the Government a kick. I don't know anyone who voted No to kick the Government. I think your assessment is wrong.This is Yes or No to a treaty not to the EU. Either you are scaremongering or you don't know what you're talking about.
Well their currency wouldn't have collapsed and they'd still be able to afford imported goods. Seems they are pretty keen to get in.
What makes you think we will be "isolated from Europe" if we reject Lisbon II; what do you mean by "isolated"? On what legal basis will the EU isolate or punish Ireland and what would that say about the EU's regard for democracy and it's own rules? I would be surprised if you had any connection to any Yes campaign. I believe my views on the subject to be considered, not quite as delusional, naive and ignorant as you suggest.if we are in fact isolated from europe alot of people who didnt really know what they were voting for (which will happen) will be sorry what they voted for. You are assuming that I am in the yes campaign and just trying to scare people.
It is also safe to assume that many people voted no based on false comments from Veritas and Sinn Fein.
Off topic but I thought it funny that the christian shops got a mention!
I has nothing to do with the banks but everything to do with the currency. If every Irish bank collapsed tomorrow, our currency would still be Euro and would still have the same purchasing power as it does today.I'll bow to your expertise on the currency point (macro economics not my thing) but I get the feeling that when most people say "Iceland - it coulda been us !!! " they are thinking that the EU would never let that happen to Irish banks, but as you say yourself, they'd be wrong.
What makes you think we will be "isolated from Europe" if we reject Lisbon II; what do you mean by "isolated"? On what legal basis will the EU isolate or punish Ireland and what would that say about the EU's regard for democracy and it's own rules? I would be surprised if you had any connection to any Yes campaign. I believe my views on the subject to be considered, not quite as delusional, naive and ignorant as you suggest.
There is no legal basis under which to punish Ireland. Lisbon would complete the framework for a Federal Europe. We will not be asked to vote on anything after Lisbon. I see positives in Lisbon being rejected. I believe that politicians may finally realise that most people in most countries don't want a Federal EU and will begin to slim down the EU and return competencies to National Parliaments. At the very least if Lisbon fails the EU will have to be honest about the federal project and seek direct approval from the peoples of Europe.Ok, do you consider there will be no ramifications for the country if we vote no.
There is no legal basis under which to punish Ireland. Lisbon would complete the framework for a Federal Europe. We will not be asked to vote on anything after Lisbon. I see positives in Lisbon being rejected. I believe that politicians may finally realise that most people in most countries don't want a Federal EU and will begin to slim down the EU and return competencies to National Parliaments. At the very least if Lisbon fails the EU will have to be honest about the federal project and seek direct approval from the peoples of Europe.
The Referendum Commission supported this naive interpretation of a NO vote first time round. Can anybody honestly believe that, with all the other 26 countries ratifying the Treaty, with Ireland given a commissioner and with legal guarantees given for its rather quaint sensibilities, if we vote NO a second time they are simply going to scrap the whole project?At the very least if Lisbon fails the EU will have to be honest about the federal project and seek direct approval from the peoples of Europe.
There is no legal basis under which to punish Ireland. Lisbon would complete the framework for a Federal Europe. We will not be asked to vote on anything after Lisbon. I see positives in Lisbon being rejected. I believe that politicians may finally realise that most people in most countries don't want a Federal EU and will begin to slim down the EU and return competencies to National Parliaments. At the very least if Lisbon fails the EU will have to be honest about the federal project and seek direct approval from the peoples of Europe.
Duke of Marmalade; I am tempted to open a new thread entitled "Assuming the LT will be implemented irrespective of our position said:i guess we will know the awnser to that come next october, by the way..dont put too much faith in paddy power...he has been know to get it wrong in the past!
quaint sensibilities
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